With regards to what to do if you are convinced that Kramnik is in the wrong: what's wrong with a fine? Happens in professional tennis, and football I believe. If you mess with titles you undermine rating systems, etc. And if you are proved to be in the wrong, financial penalties are easier to rescind. More controversially, you could prevent him from attending a future congress, although this has similar effects to removing titles.
On principle, Mr H's art is off limits. It might be good or bad - I don't have the aesthetic judgement to say - but it has limited relevance to his other contributions to life on this planet.
@coledavis said in #31:
> With regards to what to do if you are convinced that Kramnik is in the wrong: what's wrong with a fine? Happens in professional tennis, and football I believe. If you mess with titles you undermine rating systems, etc. And if you are proved to be in the wrong, financial penalties are easier to rescind. More controversially, you could prevent him from attending a future congress, although this has similar effects to removing titles.
Yes a fine works but I don't think he's in shortage of money
The punishment, in this case, does not do the crime (someone getting tormented over a year and eventually taking his own life because of it) justice
Rather more appropriate would be banning him from all future FIDE/online events, tournaments, etc.
Let him keep his GM title he earned but don't let him play in any platform that matters anymore
That would be more fitting and also more likely to deter him from trying to pull this on anyone else in the future as well
By the way who is kramnik ?
But are we sure that the death relates to professional matters? And are you sure that Kramnik is responsible?
I think we are being rushed to judgement.
@coledavis said in #34:
> But are we sure that the death relates to professional matters? And are you sure that Kramnik is responsible?
> I think we are being rushed to judgement.
Idk if the death is related to it but Daniel spoke about how Kramnik tried to ruin his life and the severe mental issues and downward spiral he had faced following the incident openly, even so on his very last days
He was clearly thinking about it a lot still, even if it wasn't the sole cause
@amnith said in #33:
> By the way who is kramnik ?
A sad old man angry at young people for doing things he no longer understands, so he endlessly harasses them.
@coledavis said in #31:
> With regards to what to do if you are convinced that Kramnik is in the wrong: what's wrong with a fine? Happens in professional tennis, and football I believe.
First issue is, why would he pay it? What are they going to do about it? Ban him from play? He doesn't play now.
Second, fide is already considered corrupt by many people (me included). What are they going to do, make money on this? That'll go over like a fart in church. From many angles, this can't work. Do you think the family wants money? No. They want Daniel back.
Third, I cant even make a comparison to other pro sports. This is unprecedented. There is no easy answer. And if anything is certain, no matter what fide does, it'll somehow make things worse. They are notorious for bad decisions and deservedly so. Some of theirs already contributed to Danyas stress situatIon. I can think of two in recent months. Don't expect anything but a clown show from them.
Lastly, till someone shows undeniable culpability, this discussion is a waste of time. I fully agree with the consensus that VK is a jackass, but there is little that can be done at this time. Life isn't fair. Getting worked up over this isn't healthy. That should be obvious to even the most casual observers.
@RealDavidNavara said in #20:
> Revoking titles is not a good idea, although I would like to mention that FIDE has changed its list of the World Champions before, and that Vishy Anand became the unified World Champion in 2007, although Vladimir Kramnik was referred to as a World Champion until 2008 in some sources. And stripping him of the GM title would be absurd as well.
> That said, about 10 years ago FIDE forced a certain ex-GM to return his first prize ($11000) after he had been found guilty of cheating at his next tournament.
> Many of GM Kramnik's statistic have been found highly problematic by experts.
> GM Kramnik has got his reputation of a fighter against cheating primarily because of his statistics and accusations. Those statistics and accusations helped him to play two very well-paid matches against José Martínez Alcántara.
> Perhaps FIDE could force GM Kramnik to pay his earnings from those matches to Danya's family. (Money would not repair the damage, but I see no better way how an inactive player could be adequately punished. Removing titles would appear inadequate in this case.)
-- Money is not the issue here, and I don't see any benefit of doing such a thing, -- and in fact I think would just further inflame the community.
The community wants justice. AKA revocation, or prison sentence.
But first of all who
is Kramnik ?
And also is there even 1 or 2 Kramnik before and after
@RishadanPort said in #38:
> The community wants justice.
What does 'justice' mean and why are you speaking for everyone else?
> AKA revocation, or prison sentence.
Why should Kramnik go to jail?
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