Kramnik should be isolated from the chess world

@SD_2709 said in #46:

In terms of morality he's only a bit better than a killer but legally he's safe
So LEGALLY he did nothing wrong is your point? But amoral? Well, why ban him if LEGALLY HE IS SAFE? Why should anyone care about your personal morality? You want blood from Vlad the Impaler, but say, that in fact legally he is safe, so lol.
Let him coach, but he should not be allowed on platforms like lichess,chesscom or FIDE.. that sends a powerful message that the chess world does not want to be associated with him anymore
That is possible, but... He doesn't attend FIDE events, he is selfbanned on Chess.com, and do not know about lichess acc, but in fact nothing can stop him from smurfing on alt account. But first you need to LEGALLY link Danya's death to Kramnik accusations.

I don't, this is why banning him on platforms like that is much harder... he retains the right to free speech, but he should be banned from all chess related platforms

His current accounts on social media should be banned too on grounds of harassment but that won't help much so whatever
Banning Kram on X and Youtube will completely wipe him off social and that will 95% stop him from harassing players. But that is completely impossible.
But yes, FREE SPEECH baby. Welcome to dark side of democracy. That is why FIDE struggles so much.

@SD_2709 said in #46: > In terms of morality he's only a bit better than a killer but legally he's safe So LEGALLY he did nothing wrong is your point? But amoral? Well, why ban him if LEGALLY HE IS SAFE? Why should anyone care about your personal morality? You want blood from Vlad the Impaler, but say, that in fact legally he is safe, so lol. > Let him coach, but he should not be allowed on platforms like lichess,chesscom or FIDE.. that sends a powerful message that the chess world does not want to be associated with him anymore That is possible, but... He doesn't attend FIDE events, he is selfbanned on Chess.com, and do not know about lichess acc, but in fact nothing can stop him from smurfing on alt account. But first you need to LEGALLY link Danya's death to Kramnik accusations. I don't, this is why banning him on platforms like that is much harder... he retains the right to free speech, but he should be banned from all chess related platforms > His current accounts on social media should be banned too on grounds of harassment but that won't help much so whatever Banning Kram on X and Youtube will completely wipe him off social and that will 95% stop him from harassing players. But that is completely impossible. But yes, FREE SPEECH baby. Welcome to dark side of democracy. That is why FIDE struggles so much.

Molurus

#53

@ValProZwan said in #52:

So LEGALLY he did nothing wrong is your point? But amoral? Well, why ban him if LEGALLY HE IS SAFE? Why should anyone care about your personal morality? You want blood from Vlad the Impaler, but say, that in fact legally he is safe, so lol.

That is possible, but... He doesn't attend FIDE events, he is selfbanned on Chess.com, and do not know about lichess acc, but in fact nothing can stop him from smurfing on alt account. But first you need to LEGALLY link Danya's death to Kramnik accusations.

I don't, this is why banning him on platforms like that is much harder... he retains the right to free speech, but he should be banned from all chess related platforms

Banning Kram on X and Youtube will completely wipe him off social and that will 95% stop him from harassing players. But that is completely impossible.
But yes, FREE SPEECH baby. Welcome to dark side of democracy. That is why FIDE struggles so much.

Both X and Youtube do not require an actual legal argument to ban anyone. Nor does FIDE require a legal argument to, say, take away someone's title.

Whether or not they should, that's open for debate. And you're right about one thing: you can't actually silence Kramnik. Even if there turns out to be a direct legal link to Danya's death.

@ValProZwan said in #52: > So LEGALLY he did nothing wrong is your point? But amoral? Well, why ban him if LEGALLY HE IS SAFE? Why should anyone care about your personal morality? You want blood from Vlad the Impaler, but say, that in fact legally he is safe, so lol. > > That is possible, but... He doesn't attend FIDE events, he is selfbanned on Chess.com, and do not know about lichess acc, but in fact nothing can stop him from smurfing on alt account. But first you need to LEGALLY link Danya's death to Kramnik accusations. > > I don't, this is why banning him on platforms like that is much harder... he retains the right to free speech, but he should be banned from all chess related platforms > > Banning Kram on X and Youtube will completely wipe him off social and that will 95% stop him from harassing players. But that is completely impossible. > But yes, FREE SPEECH baby. Welcome to dark side of democracy. That is why FIDE struggles so much. Both X and Youtube do not require an actual legal argument to ban anyone. Nor does FIDE require a legal argument to, say, take away someone's title. Whether or not they should, that's open for debate. And you're right about one thing: you can't actually silence Kramnik. Even if there turns out to be a direct legal link to Danya's death.

ValProZwan edited

#54

@Molurus said in #53:

Both X and Youtube do not require an actual legal argument to ban anyone. Nor does FIDE require a legal argument to, say, take away someone's title.

Lol, FIDE like- we revoke ur GM title because you know what... SYBAU))) Nope, technically you can ban, but you need a strong argument- cause reputation. You can't ban anyone, cause you don;t like him. And Vlad definitely did not break any rules of X and Youtube. Real cyberslalking is complete different of Vlad's "suspicions".
You don't need to silence him, you should politely respond on any accusation, that you don't answer to chess cheater (he played from another player account, that is cheating too), official humiliation without rude words is the best medicine.

@Molurus said in #53: > Both X and Youtube do not require an actual legal argument to ban anyone. Nor does FIDE require a legal argument to, say, take away someone's title. Lol, FIDE like- we revoke ur GM title because you know what... SYBAU))) Nope, technically you can ban, but you need a strong argument- cause reputation. You can't ban anyone, cause you don;t like him. And Vlad definitely did not break any rules of X and Youtube. Real cyberslalking is complete different of Vlad's "suspicions". You don't need to silence him, you should politely respond on any accusation, that you don't answer to chess cheater (he played from another player account, that is cheating too), official humiliation without rude words is the best medicine.

calmar

#55

If you can't handle opinions, you may don't want to put your face into the public?

After all, we don't even know, is the accusations was the main cause or something anwyay.

The public is a nasty space - that's for sure.. you really should consider that beforehand.

Why the f.... can't Kramnik has his opinions? After all, most don't take him seriously - so what? In the case of David, he might is very sensitive to that - so it's tragic - but even he was able to get over it it seems. He knows we all love him - so what... Everybody else, especially with a million of fans, they should be able to handle that. I mean Moke.. handled it .. and he really got it tough by Magnus und Hikaru .. and everybody laughed about him. So he is still here, right? And another one (possibly) makes suicide because notorious Kramnik has an opinion? If you can't handle opinions, you may don't want to put your face into the public? After all, we don't even know, is the accusations was the main cause or something anwyay. The public is a nasty space - that's for sure.. you really should consider that beforehand.

#56

SD_2709

#57

@calmar said in #55:

Why the f.... can't Kramnik has his opinions? After all, most don't take him seriously - so what?
In the case of David, he might is very sensitive to that - so it's tragic - but even he was able to get over it it seems.
He knows we all love him - so what...
Everybody else, especially with a million of fans, they should be able to handle that.
I mean Moke.. handled it .. and he really got it tough by Magnus und Hikaru .. and everybody laughed about him. So he is still here, right?
And another one (possibly) makes suicide because notorious Kramnik has an opinion?

If you can't handle opinions, you may don't want to put your face into the public?

After all, we don't even know, is the accusations was the main cause or something anwyay.

The public is a nasty space - that's for sure.. you really should consider that beforehand.

Yeah having opinions and harassing someone intently like this is completely different... honestly I would not find it hard to believe maybe kramnik wanted something like this or wanted to ruin Danya's life pretty badly, and that's why he did what he did

@calmar said in #55: > Why the f.... can't Kramnik has his opinions? After all, most don't take him seriously - so what? > In the case of David, he might is very sensitive to that - so it's tragic - but even he was able to get over it it seems. > He knows we all love him - so what... > Everybody else, especially with a million of fans, they should be able to handle that. > I mean Moke.. handled it .. and he really got it tough by Magnus und Hikaru .. and everybody laughed about him. So he is still here, right? > And another one (possibly) makes suicide because notorious Kramnik has an opinion? > > If you can't handle opinions, you may don't want to put your face into the public? > > After all, we don't even know, is the accusations was the main cause or something anwyay. > > The public is a nasty space - that's for sure.. you really should consider that beforehand. Yeah having opinions and harassing someone intently like this is completely different... honestly I would not find it hard to believe maybe kramnik wanted something like this or wanted to ruin Danya's life pretty badly, and that's why he did what he did

SD_2709

#58

@ValProZwan said in #54:

Both X and Youtube do not require an actual legal argument to ban anyone. Nor does FIDE require a legal argument to, say, take away someone's title.

Lol, FIDE like- we revoke ur GM title because you know what... SYBAU))) Nope, technically you can ban, but you need a strong argument- cause reputation. You can't ban anyone, cause you don;t like him. And Vlad definitely did not break any rules of X and Youtube. Real cyberslalking is complete different of Vlad's "suspicions".

YT, FIDE and X are not owned by the governments, they don't need a justification to ban a user

Kramnik is an awful human being and barely better than a cold blooded killer, I see no problem with banning him from the platforms, and outside of Russia I doubt anyone would give them bad publicity or blame them for it (other than maybe you, given you seem to think he has a right to keep his accounts)

You don't need to silence him, you should politely respond on any accusation, that you don't answer to chess cheater (he played from another player account, that is cheating too), official humiliation without rude words is the best medicine.

Yeah people have politely ridiculed him for a while now and look where that's led us.. .he clearly doesn't care about his bad publicity, he will keep doing it and attack his next victim just as viciously

He has not even accepted responsibility for his actions and taken partial blame for Danya's death... he deserves nothing, and if he's not checked properly more lives may be lost.. but sure, let's be polite

@ValProZwan said in #54: > Both X and Youtube do not require an actual legal argument to ban anyone. Nor does FIDE require a legal argument to, say, take away someone's title. > > Lol, FIDE like- we revoke ur GM title because you know what... SYBAU))) Nope, technically you can ban, but you need a strong argument- cause reputation. You can't ban anyone, cause you don;t like him. And Vlad definitely did not break any rules of X and Youtube. Real cyberslalking is complete different of Vlad's "suspicions". YT, FIDE and X are not owned by the governments, they don't need a justification to ban a user Kramnik is an awful human being and barely better than a cold blooded killer, I see no problem with banning him from the platforms, and outside of Russia I doubt anyone would give them bad publicity or blame them for it (other than maybe you, given you seem to think he has a right to keep his accounts) > You don't need to silence him, you should politely respond on any accusation, that you don't answer to chess cheater (he played from another player account, that is cheating too), official humiliation without rude words is the best medicine. Yeah people have politely ridiculed him for a while now and look where that's led us.. .he clearly doesn't care about his bad publicity, he will keep doing it and attack his next victim just as viciously He has not even accepted responsibility for his actions and taken partial blame for Danya's death... he deserves nothing, and if he's not checked properly more lives may be lost.. but sure, let's be polite

sogoncheck

#59

I get we are sorta trying to make sense of this sadness, but we may never get answers. It just sucks all around.

Bad guys get away with it all the time and the trend doesn't seem to be stopping.

I mean, how much more evidence do we need that we're surrounded by jerks that don't operate by the same decency and civil social norms we value. Folks may be quick to go the narcissist route but I suspect some/many folks are hardwired to be jerks to the core, and the other stuff is window dressing. I get we are sorta trying to make sense of this sadness, but we may never get answers. It just sucks all around. Bad guys get away with it all the time and the trend doesn't seem to be stopping.

coledavis

#60

@SD_2709
"we do not let killers roam free"
"barely better than a cold blooded killer"

I think the hyperbole is unnecessary and possibly even dangerous.

@SD_2709 "we do not let killers roam free" "barely better than a cold blooded killer" I think the hyperbole is unnecessary and possibly even dangerous.

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