If he can play let him prove over the board but guess what he hasnt played since 2019 and dropped 24.4 pts with k10 with his last tournament in 2019. He became a world champion back when it was easy. He is just not skilled enough these days with modern gm's studying tons of openings and stuff. He just could not keep up and it shows on his fide profile
Brilliant chess players often get affected by mental illness. The same thing that makes them amazing at chess also can have detrimental effects. And here I refer to both Danya and VK. Don't forget what happened to Fischer.
I often heard this idea, especially from Westerners, that if you are mean to someone and they off themselves it's somehow your fault. I believe it just means you're an ass.
@TotalNoob69 said in #42:
> I often heard this idea, especially from Westerners, that if you are mean to someone and they off themselves it's somehow your fault. I believe it just means you're an ass.
If a person accuses and harasses someone to make their life miserable, and they become mentally unwell and take their life, it's not unreasonable to make the connection that person might have something to do with that. VK used his considerable status and invested a lot of time to make the life of Danya (and many others) as miserable as possible. The idea that words don't have consequences and can't be harmful is not true. Words and falsehoods have hurt many, many people. Expecting people to just suck it up while the asses can say whatever they want doesn't seem fair either. While there's some truth to what you say, I have to respectfully disagree.
@Meeuw2000 said in #43:
> While there's some truth to what you say, I have to respectfully disagree.
I am not saying that behavior should not have consequences, but they should be proportional to the behavior, not whatever effects it has on particular people. I loved Danya and I am so sad he is dead, but blaming Kramnik for it doesn't really help.
Kramnik is right that the chess world is super fake. This idea that you can drive someone to suicide by suspecting them of cheating is ridiculous. Naroditsky himself at some point said that cheating accusations shouldn't be taken personally if someone is accused. And Carlsen accusing Niemann was much bigger case than Kramnik accusing anybody. Carlsen has 1000x times more credibility in popular world. But if Niemann killed himself because of it I wouldn't blame Carlsen either.
Get realistic, I am supposed to believe that Kramnik who has 20000 subscribers on YouTube and Twitter is bullying Nakamura, GothamChess, Naroditsky that have millions of fans. Most people don't even watch his side of the story. And also, yes, a lot of chess "content creators" are Chess.com partners and it does affect their coverage of "chess drama". It's not chess mafia it's a reality.
What is public record is that Naroditsky was overworking, he was chronically online, playing/streaming/commentating non-stop. That took a toll on him. Also, there were multiple cases of very strong young chess grandmasters dying under strange circumstances before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urii_Eliseev / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bukavshin / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Bogdanovich
His last stream (it's uploaded in some places) he was visibly in deep pain and/or on something. His friends came to him and stopped him from playing. But in retrospective it was a half-measure, and chess world should've acted strongly (but ultimately it was his choice)
Another point. Multiple times already I saw Titled players getting banned by Lichess/Chess.com they go on reddit/YouTube and say how they are 100% percent innocent. And maybe it's true. But you are not gonna like it when those same titled chess players gonna be ranting on the internet saying how they are gonna commit suicide because their reputation is tarnished.
@CyberShredder possible you underestimate the effect what false accusation can cause. I suggest to you (and everyone else) to read https://lichess.org/@/RealDavidNavara/blog/because-we-care/fauAwr9r
@CyberShredder said in #45:
>
@CyberShredder said in #45:
> Kramnik is right that the chess world is super fake. This idea that you can drive someone to suicide by suspecting them of cheating is ridiculous. Naroditsky himself at some point said that cheating accusations shouldn't be taken personally if someone is accused. And Carlsen accusing Niemann was much bigger case than Kramnik accusing anybody. Carlsen has 1000x times more credibility in popular world. But if Niemann killed himself because of it I wouldn't blame Carlsen either.
>
> Get realistic, I am supposed to believe that Kramnik who has 20000 subscribers on YouTube and Twitter is bullying Nakamura, GothamChess, Naroditsky that have millions of fans. Most people don't even watch his side of the story. And also, yes, a lot of chess "content creators" are Chess.com partners and it does affect their coverage of "chess drama". It's not chess mafia it's a reality.
>
> What is public record is that Naroditsky was overworking, he was chronically online, playing/streaming/commentating non-stop. That took a toll on him. Also, there were multiple cases of very strong young chess grandmasters dying under strange circumstances before en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urii_Eliseev / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bukavshin / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Bogdanovich
>
> His last stream (it's uploaded in some places) he was visibly in deep pain and/or on something. His friends came to him and stopped him from playing. But in retrospective it was a half-measure, and chess world should've acted strongly (but ultimately it was his choice)
>
> Another point. Multiple times already I saw Titled players getting banned by Lichess/Chess.com they go on reddit/YouTube and say how they are 100% percent innocent. And maybe it's true. But you are not gonna like it when those same titled chess players gonna be ranting on the internet saying how they are gonna commit suicide because their reputation is tarnished.
um its not confirmed it was suicide no?
@gbtami I read it long time ago. Navara was never accused. Kramnik post was about some FM overperforming. Second it's not about accusation being false, hypothetically someone can kill himself because his real cheating got exposed, that's why my last point is relevant. I don't like this idea that you can't say bad things about somebody because they can commit suicide.
I am aware that we are having a mental health crisis but it's not about conflicts and trolls on the internet. It's about loneliness, no family, no friends, online interactions instead of IRL ones and much, much more. You can't create safe space internet echochamber and solve this problem.
Regarding cheating I came to the inclusion that so much money shouldn't have been invested in online chess in the first place. Platforms can't ensure fair play anyway. It doesn't matter what Kramnik says, I don't think there's trust between professional players.
@Lukeysh A lot of people imply that. His mental state was affected by Kramnik suspicion, but I don't think that Kramnik can be blamed for his death regardless how it happened.
so ive been reading through this blog and there have been mentions about a last stream? any ideas when that was and the topic of it?
while i agree that Kramnik is not entirely responsable for Naroditsky death but i think he certainly contributed to his mental problems and stress
This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.