The cause of death is unknown. People are speculating without proper knowledge. Kramnik's accusations were baseless and caused Naroditsky mental anguish. There were also others who supported the accusations behind the scenes. However, the current demands to remove Kramnik's titles, saying he killed Naroditsky and calling for FIDE to be abolished are performative. We still don't know the full circumstances behind Naroditsky's death.
Most of the popular figures in the chess world are hypocrites.
Carlsen launched a smear campaign against Niemann. Now he says that "the way Kramnik was going after him [Naroditsky] was horrible". He did the exact same thing on a much grander scale to Niemann, getting chess. com to launch a smear campaign and letting all his cronies do the dirty work while hiding in his basement. Carlsen even went on Rogan at the beginning of this year with some more smears saying:
"But what I can say was that there were a lot of factors that made me very, very suspicious. I think ever since then, he has become better, but there's still something off, both then and now."
Levy had made a video with a thumbnail of Hans's face next to a*** b**** during the false accusation scandal. He removed it after the news of Danya's death. It was ok to leave it up for 3 years, but suddenly it's now a problem (covering himself to avoid being scrutinized for his sexual harassment).
Nakamura also joined in the smear campaign against Niemann (20+ youtube videos within 2 months) and has accused so many others in the past.
Nemo made a youtube short 'My advice to Hans Niemann' about how Niemann should be sponsored by an a*** b**** company.
All these people are now acting like they care.
Niemann's smear campaign took place on a worldwide scale with mass sexual harassment. Many people who engaged in the smear campaign now try to pretend that they care about defamation and destroying someone's life.
The point is that real change will not happen when these figures are tied by monetary incentive to overlook smear campaigns by people who pay their bills. They only come out when someone like Kramnik is involved (Kramnik doesn't pay their bills).
They clearly don't really care about smear campaigns as shown by their actions in the past.
This hurts more than words can say.
Danya wasn’t just a grandmaster. He was our grandmaster. The one who made chess feel alive. Who made us laugh, made us think, made us love the game even more. His speedruns, his commentary, his absolute love for teaching — it all came from a place of genuine passion and kindness.
He made us better players. He made us better people.
Rest in peace, Danya. You gave so much. You deserved so much more time.
We'll never forget you.
@CyberShredder Not here to argue, but it doesn't add up what you're saying. People did blame Carlsen for making insinuations and leaving the Sinquefield cup. It's also a false equivalency between how Carlsen and Kramnik behaved. They were both wrong, but Kramnik was way more open, way more vicious and way more persistent. The arguments that Kramnik deployed against Naroditsky were also nonsensical (like that one bishop move), or pedantic (like opening an engine to answer a question from chat against an opponent with a lost position, 1000 rating points less and who'd get their rating points refunded after the game anyway, for which Naroditsky also apologized).
You're saying that a former World Champion doesn't hold any weight, comparing him to some small time content creator, which is hard to take serious, if only because of how FIDE and the Russian Chess Federation have enabled and protected VK. You list a bunch of random stuff like overworking and "mysterious deaths" as being more likely causes than what Danya himself has stated has been the main cause of his mental problems. You admonish his friends for not doing enough, while defending and downplaying the people who have been attacking him for over a year with baseless accusations. And at the end we have another false equivalency between Chess.com/Lichess cheat detection and VK's highly questionable accusations and statistics, as if they're remotely on the same level of credibility.
It's obvious what you're saying. I don't think there's much point in arguing. But for the sake of third parties I wanted to point out how little sense it makes.
What did he die of? As far as I know, the cause of death has not been released. So this whole discussion seems stupid to me. Kramnick being an ass currently has no known relevance to the death.
@Meeuw2000 You are not in the context.
Compare what those youtubers were saying about Carlsen accusations and about Kramnik accusations. Kramnik's accusations have weight, but let's not pretend he has the same weight as Carlsen has, people nowadays don't follow chess champions they follow chess social media figures. So yes, it is about subscribers. Also the more people Kramnik "accuses" the less weight his accusations have. If he made a point about 100 players it's not very likely that all or even most of them are cheating. But if Carlsen decides to take action on one concrete player, his accusation have weight. Regardless even in that case with Niemann, Niemann definitely could've expected something like that with his sudden rise. So I am not fully against Carlsen there
As RuyLopez1000 above pointed out Chess com and Magnus pays their bills, Kramnik isn't, that's the difference. It's not about the evidence.
Overworking and being chronically online is random stuff? It's verifiable.
Regarding FIDE and Russian Chess Federation I guess they have some people capable of thinking there. A lot of people try to find some ethnic angle here, but that's irrelevant. Most popular Kramnik video was about his suspicion towards famous Russian Streamer IM.
By pointing out "mysterious deaths" I am making the point that a lot of successful chess players have suffered from depression or/and drug use, it's not the first time. So it's not about accusations and trolls on the internet. It's about the fact that "chess is mental torture". Did you ever lost 8 hour classical game?
I don't admonish his friends, they cared for him. They did come to him on that stream to talk to him, and checked on him later. But we are themselves responsible for our lives, not our friends. They could've not known, that's why I wrote that they took a half-measure "in retrospective". But yeah, if those chess influencers made a video about Naroditsky acting very strangely on his last stream maybe this story turned out differently. But it would be a tough thing to do, interfering in his life, public image. In fact Kramnik reported about his stream on twitter. I don't think he acted in bad faith, but anyway, if others said that he needs help, maybe people would took action. But it's too late. Now all they can do is go after Kramnik. Very brave of them. What a stance to make
Lichess/Chess com have more credibility but my last point stands regardless
Kramnik was a factor in his depression, but Danya probably overdosed on something that put him into deep deep sleep.
@BitWiseBlossom said in #56:
> Kramnik was a factor in his depression, but Danya probably overdosed on something that put him into deep deep sleep.
I doubt an overdose is the reason for “suicide?” Although Kramniks comments probably affected his choices but I still think it is not entirely Kramniks fault
I didn’t know Naroditsky, nor do I know Kramnik. I also don’t believe most of streamers, friends etc. had more than a passing acquaintance with Daniel. That being said I did watch the final stream, and the one thing that seems to be missing...
Daniel needed professional help. I don’t mean that in a sarcastic, harsh sense but in a clinical one. Friends are simply not capable of giving the kind of care and intervention he needed. They shouldn’t blame themselves, nor should they blame Kramnik.
As far as I can tell, yes Kramnik behaved as an ass. But, this wasn’t continuous stalking and cyber bullying. But instead a handful of unpleasant exchanges/interactions spread over more than a years time. Asses do exist, part of life is learning to deal with them.
The state Daniel was in his last stream was well beyond any stress levels those interactions should have caused. He needed professional help, I wish he had received it.
@CyberShredder
Carlsen was very much in the wrong with Niemann. A lot of chess streamers profited from the Niemann drama, and they are hypocrites for it. They caused Niemann mental anguish, and all of that was wrong. But this isn't a race, two wrong don't make a right. So let's not do whataboutisms. Both Carlsen and Kramnik have stained their reputation, and one significantly more so than the other, by degrees of intensity and hostility.
You raise good points on mental problems being common in professional chess. Which makes it all the more important that strict regulation is enforced when it comes to slander and false accusations. It's not twitch streamers or their followers who have that power. The chess federations do. And those chess federations have enabled Kramnik, no matter how wild the accusations. You can point at the hypocrisy of the streamers, and rightfully so, but please do so without deflecting from the people who have the power to make decision.
You say the people at the federations have the ability to think, and I'd love to agree, but it's genuinely hard to believe that if you look at the sort of moon logic people are indulging and defending. Because that's what the Naroditsky accusations were (the bishop, the engine on stream, the eye tracking stuff). The kind of moon logic world leaders peddle for followers to wear as badges of loyalty, no matter how clownish. I'm sorry if you confused the political with ethnicity somehow. Dumb politics is something that belongs to all peoples.
We don't know how Naroditsky died, and I agree with people saying it's pointless to debate if and how Kramnik is implicated. The event of his passing did shine a light on Kramnik's behaviour, and people are disgusted. I have been for a while. You say Kramnik tweeting about the stream was genuine concern, but that's contrary to how he's been inflicting as much damage as possible. I'd like to understand your point of view, but it makes no sense. I think you're suggesting that only if his friends would've publicly shamed him on having a weird stream that all of this might not have occured? Like, how does that work? Should they have also joined in speculating on him using enhancing drugs like "concerned" Kramnik? This makes no sense at all. I like postmodern absurdity as much as the next person, but this is a bit much.
He even did this David Navarra
Who is a Netherlands GM
And David right now is mentally ill
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