People are blaming Kramnik, and even GMs like Nihal are criticizing him. What do you all think?

@SticksNStones said in #12:

However, he has the right to express his opinion even if wrong and even if dangerous. The freedom to express ourselves is more important than everything else.

There is a difference between expressing an opinion and outright slander. And freedom of speech can never be absolute in a free and safe society. Sadly, the idea that it can be and should be has been one of the biggest problems in modern society.

@Molurus said in #13:

There is a difference between expressing an opinion and outright slander. And freedom of speech can never be absolute in a free and safe society. Sadly, the idea that it can be and should be has been one of the biggest problems in modern society.

Firstly: That's not the point.
Secondly: If you have a perfect mechanism for censorhip, please share it. Otherwise, save it for another universe.

Here is what I think of Kramnik:

He must not be called for interviews.
He must not be invited to events.
He must be isolated.
He must be forgotten.
His name must be left in the oblivion until the end of time.

@SticksNStones said in #14:

Firstly: That's not the point.
Secondly: If you have a perfect mechanism for censorhip, please share it. Otherwise, save it for another universe.

The perfect mechanism for censorship is already found in the declaration of human rights, article 29

@SticksNStones said in #14:

Firstly: That's not the point.

"The freedom to express ourselves is more important than everything else."

I'm saying this is demonstrably false.

Secondly: If you have a perfect mechanism for censorhip, please share it. Otherwise, save it for another universe.

I'm not sure I would call it perfect, but there is more to life than law. Say things that are morally bad, you can and will be excluded. Even if you are 'allowed' by law to say it. And this very much applies to Kramnik. We should really stop paying attention to him, completely.

@SticksNStones said in #12:

Kramnik's accusations were almost certainly false and as it turned out also dangerous.
However, he has the right to express his opinion even if wrong and even if dangerous. The freedom to express ourselves is more important than everything else.
Carlsen himself accused Hans Niemann pretty much for the same thing. More grounded, more likely to be true but still for exactly the same thing. Where is the proof for Hans? Doesn't Carlsen, also ex world Champion, have the right to express his concerns about Hans cheating?
The problem with the case of Danya was that the top Gms did not support him as much as they should (or at least could) immediately after the piece of s_ _ t aka Vladimir Kramnik, posted his ungrounded accusations. Danya felt all of a sudden alone due to the ''diplomatic'' approach most famous chess figures had back then. If a random guy said something similar, everyone would go after him but because Vladimir is ex world Champion, somehow it is different. If you wish to accuse somebody for what happened, you can safely accuse all those guys (youtubers, Top Gms etc) who now post videos about how sad and socked they are but did not support Danya and did not cancel Kramnik when they had the chance. They did not want to choose a side, the side of Danya, and fight for it because they were afraid they would lose a bunch of viewers. Yes, some of them posted some tweets but that's not the way. Every day since day 1, they should go out and speak against Kramnik until Kramnik apologized and justice was restored. Not just post one sentence and then move on with some random stream''Guess the Elo'' or ''Smurfing the 2000s'' etc.
As for FIDE, any word would be a waste...

Not reacting against injustice towards others is the same as causing it. If a lesson was learned here, it's this one.

The comparison with Magnus is inappropriate. He accused one person, but not as openly and aggressively, not as persistently, but more substantiated, as you yourself noted.

Kramnik's problem is that by accusing too many people, he, firstly, lacks sufficient grounds, and secondly, he himself resorted to questionable methods.
For example, he played on someone else's account in the title Tuesdays on Chess.com, for which he himself was banned.
His fight against cheating is perverse.
This will soon be perceived solely as a mental disorder... unfortunately, due to his status as World Champion, some cannot simply ignore it.

Like wtf , he even told him of substance accuse after his death . No respect for him now , again R.I.P DANIEL

@Italiya said in #19:

The comparison with Magnus is inappropriate. He accused one person, but not as openly and aggressively, not as persistently, but more substantiated, as you yourself noted.

Kramnik's problem is that by accusing too many people, he, firstly, lacks sufficient grounds, and secondly, he himself resorted to questionable methods.
For example, he played on someone else's account in the title Tuesdays on Chess.com, for which he himself was banned.
His fight against cheating is perverse.
This will soon be perceived solely as a mental disorder... unfortunately, due to his status as World Champion, some cannot simply ignore it.

I said myslef his accusations were ungrounded. That is not the point. There will always be people doing bad things.
The point is that everyone deals with a problem only when it is their problem. Where were all the famous chess figures when Kramnik was out of line against Danya? The solution is not silencing the people we do not agree with or forbid them to talk preemtively.
The solution is that when someone is out of line, everyone including the organizations should put that person on the side and not pay attention. This will orient the limits of the speech of the oriented person and of those who shared the opinion of the oriented person. Frankly, it is not that complex.
As for the inappropriate comparison, no it isn't. It is exactly the same thing. If you ask me, I believe it's quite possible that Hans has cheated in many occasions. However, I do not have any proof, nor does Magnus. As simple as that.

@Deadban said in #16:

Here is what I think of Kramnik:

He must not be called for interviews.
He must not be invited to events.
He must be isolated.
He must be forgotten.
His name must be left in the oblivion until the end of time.

Meanwhile, in France, a street was named after Kramnik.

@SticksNStones said in #20:

I said myslef his accusations were ungrounded. That is not the point. There will always be people doing bad things.
The point is that everyone deals with a problem only when it is their problem. Where were all the famous chess figures when Kramnik was out of line against Danya? The solution is not silencing the people we do not agree with or forbid them to talk preemtively.
The solution is that when someone is out of line, everyone including the organizations should put that person on the side and not pay attention. This will orient the limits of the speech of the oriented person and of those who shared the opinion of the oriented person. Frankly, it is not that complex.
As for the inappropriate comparison, no it isn't. It is exactly the same thing. If you ask me, I believe it's quite possible that Hans has cheated in many occasions. However, I do not have any proof, nor does Magnus. As simple as that.

<Where were all the famous chess figures when Kramnik was out of line against Danya?>

They were on the same list of defendants.