Why are you guys choosing to play chess instead of Fischer Random Chess/Chess960?

@Abigail-III said in #46:

In most, if not all, starting positions of Chess960, White has an advantage (this includes the standard setup). In some positions more than in others. This is usually rectified by having the players play 2 games, with the same starting position.

You can do this with double Fischer Random as well, eliminating the effect of bias in starting position. (Or use some kind of swap rule -- both orthodox chess and Chess960 could benefit from having a swap rule).

I don’t agree that in chess960, players should have to play 2 games. I think this is a worry without foundation. I don’t see sufficient evidence that any of the 960 positions have a large enough advantage that would require 2 games to be played.

In double Fischer Random, some positions largely favor one player over the other such that it wouldn’t be fair. An experienced player could capitalize on that. Without opening prep, I don’t think any players would be significantly advantaged in any of the 960 positions.

@DERG_CHESS said in #47:

Actually in otb, the first 8-20 moves are the most crucial ones. It is not unusual to use most of ur time on them

I’d you’re an experienced player, you should be in theory unless your opponent chose to abandon theory in which case you should be able to punish it unless they’ve done extensive opening study and came up with a novelty.

And again, the same old starting positions lends itself to the same old typical structures. 960 lends itself to many more unique structures even with high level play.

@polylogarithmique said in #48:

Well, considering that white moves first anyway, the same objection applies to chess960. See chess.stackexchange.com/questions/5344/starting-positions-in-chess960-where-black-is-definitely-worse

I’m not saying that all chess should be exactly 0.0 with no advantage whatsoever for either side. But I don’t think anyone should have a winning position in virtue of the starting position.

In chess and chess960, no one has a winning position from the starting position. In Double Fischer Random, that would be a possibility.

Right @Prophiscient You said I was Right which I am 100 percent based on what I said & what Chess IS ... THE GREATEST GAME EVER INVENTED Thank You so much for the acknowledgement' ... Chess is what it is & People CHOOSE to play Chess & Not Chess 960 as Chess is the greatest game ever invented & case closed caso cerradp ! @Prophiscient but some may play the variant chess960 if they would like to

1-2% of all games are Fischer random. The tail 960 is trying to wag the dog?

I mean the purpose of chess960 is tidying up the messy postion and then play regular chess?

@Prophiscient said in #53:

In chess and chess960, no one has a winning position from the starting position. In Double Fischer Random, that would be a possibility.
You are making two very strong claims. Do you have any evidence for any of them?

@Sarg0n said in #56:

I mean the purpose of chess960 is tidying up the messy postion and then play regular chess?

So look many games indeed.

And I think some people just want to skip this process and start playing regular chess immediatly!

@Prophiscient said in #53:

I’m not saying that all chess should be exactly 0.0 with no advantage whatsoever for either side. But I don’t think anyone should have a winning position in virtue of the starting position.

In chess and chess960, no one has a winning position from the starting position.

Where do you know this? Have you analyzed them all?

@polylogarithmique said in #57:

You are making two very strong claims. Do you have any evidence for any of them?

There’s pretty much a consensus that chess, with perfect play, is a draw.

I’ve seen no evidence that any Fischer Random position is a win for either side with perfect play. The most imbalanced position is less than +0.6.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1JVT6_ROOlCTtMmazzBe0lhcGv54rB6JCq67QOhaRp6U/htmlview#gid=0

Without opening prep or an engine, converting a <0.6 advantage to a win consistently is incredibly difficult.

Do you have any evidence any 960 position is a theoretical win?