Why are you guys choosing to play chess instead of Fischer Random Chess/Chess960? • page 5/9 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

The starting positions in Chess960 aren''t truely random either -- a position out of a selected subset of possible starting positions is choosen uniformly. Out of the 5040 ways to arrange the 8 pieces on the first rank, 4080 will never be selected due to following some of the same arbitrary historical events which led to the standard starting position.

I mean, come on, start every game with Bishops on different colours? And always the King between the Rooks? And always behind 8 pawns? Isn't that boring?

It allows for enough positions that the human mind could never comprehend while allowing every possible move in the old chess in every possible 960 position. It’s actually genius.

@Abigail-III said in #38: > The starting positions in Chess960 aren''t truely random either -- a position out of a selected subset of possible starting positions is choosen uniformly. Out of the 5040 ways to arrange the 8 pieces on the first rank, 4080 will never be selected due to following some of the same arbitrary historical events which led to the standard starting position. > > I mean, come on, start every game with Bishops on different colours? And always the King between the Rooks? And always behind 8 pawns? Isn't that boring? It allows for enough positions that the human mind could never comprehend while allowing every possible move in the old chess in every possible 960 position. It’s actually genius.

Prophiscient

#42

@Akarsh_2010 said in #39:

many of us prefer normal chess over chess960, as even though it is true that openings have been analyzed to death, most of us don't really go through the effort of learning 15 moves of theory, and even more so if we exclusively play online blitz/bullet, and levels below 2000, the opening basically has no effect on the result of the game, the better player wins most of the time.

besides if we want a different position than we are used to, just play a different opening.

Playing a different opening is fine. But there are a few issues with that in the old chess.

Other players might have studied your “new opening.” So either you’re forced to study or you get crushed.
If your opening is unsound, you disadvantage yourself.
If you play a sound opening and have studied it to avoid being crushed or disadvantaged, you’re likely to end up with a standard chess position, one that’s likely been played over and over again.

By playing a chess960 position, you avoid these undesirable possibilities while getting cool new positions.

@Akarsh_2010 said in #39: > many of us prefer normal chess over chess960, as even though it is true that openings have been analyzed to death, most of us don't really go through the effort of learning 15 moves of theory, and even more so if we exclusively play online blitz/bullet, and levels below 2000, the opening basically has no effect on the result of the game, the better player wins most of the time. > > besides if we want a different position than we are used to, just play a different opening. Playing a different opening is fine. But there are a few issues with that in the old chess. 1. Other players might have studied your “new opening.” So either you’re forced to study or you get crushed. 2. If your opening is unsound, you disadvantage yourself. 3. If you play a sound opening and have studied it to avoid being crushed or disadvantaged, you’re likely to end up with a standard chess position, one that’s likely been played over and over again. By playing a chess960 position, you avoid these undesirable possibilities while getting cool new positions.

polylogarithmique

#43

@Prophiscient why are you choosing to play chess960 instead of ultimate chess (aka chess921600 aka double Fischer random)?

Prophiscient

#44

@polylogarithmique said in #43:

@Prophiscient why are you choosing to play chess960 instead of ultimate chess (aka chess921600 aka double Fischer random)?

Because if white and black had different starting positions, it’d be possible for one of the players to have a significant advantage over the other based on the starting position. That isn’t fair. White and black having the same starting position avoids this.

If this wasn’t a concern, then double Fischer random would be fine.

@polylogarithmique said in #43: > @Prophiscient why are you choosing to play chess960 instead of ultimate chess (aka chess921600 aka double Fischer random)? Because if white and black had different starting positions, it’d be possible for one of the players to have a significant advantage over the other based on the starting position. That isn’t fair. White and black having the same starting position avoids this. If this wasn’t a concern, then double Fischer random would be fine.

NM ThunderClap

#45

Why ? I Am A Chess Player @Prophiscient ,,, I Play Chess ... Chess 960 I don't enjoy sorry but that's just me . I get the feeling you want to replace Chess or I guess you was just asking why I guess people play Chess ,,, Well Chess is Chess & nothing will change that it's the greatest game ever invented . I Love Chess the way it is with any 'faults' people may find @Prophiscient Chess is the greatest game ever invented

Abigail-III

#46

@Prophiscient said in #44:

Because if white and black had different starting positions, it’d be possible for one of the players to have a significant advantage over the other based on the starting position. That isn’t fair. White and black having the same starting position avoids this.

If this wasn’t a concern, then double Fischer random would be fine.

In most, if not all, starting positions of Chess960, White has an advantage (this includes the standard setup). In some positions more than in others. This is usually rectified by having the players play 2 games, with the same starting position.

You can do this with double Fischer Random as well, eliminating the effect of bias in starting position. (Or use some kind of swap rule -- both orthodox chess and Chess960 could benefit from having a swap rule).

@Prophiscient said in #44: > Because if white and black had different starting positions, it’d be possible for one of the players to have a significant advantage over the other based on the starting position. That isn’t fair. White and black having the same starting position avoids this. > > If this wasn’t a concern, then double Fischer random would be fine. In most, if not all, starting positions of Chess960, White has an advantage (this includes the standard setup). In some positions more than in others. This is usually rectified by having the players play 2 games, with the same starting position. You can do this with double Fischer Random as well, eliminating the effect of bias in starting position. (Or use some kind of swap rule -- both orthodox chess and Chess960 could benefit from having a swap rule).

CM DERG_CHESS

#47

@Prophiscient said in #10:

That makes sense, but it also seems a bit lazy. Like players who only want to start thinking after playing 10-15 moves, maybe in a simpler position. Or one they’ve played over and over again.
Actually in otb, the first 8-20 moves are the most crucial ones. It is not unusual to use most of ur time on them

@Prophiscient said in #10: > That makes sense, but it also seems a bit lazy. Like players who only want to start thinking after playing 10-15 moves, maybe in a simpler position. Or one they’ve played over and over again. Actually in otb, the first 8-20 moves are the most crucial ones. It is not unusual to use most of ur time on them

polylogarithmique

#48

@Prophiscient said in #44:

Because if white and black had different starting positions, it’d be possible for one of the players to have a significant advantage over the other based on the starting position. That isn’t fair. White and black having the same starting position avoids this.
Well, considering that white moves first anyway, the same objection applies to chess960. See https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/5344/starting-positions-in-chess960-where-black-is-definitely-worse

@Prophiscient said in #44: > Because if white and black had different starting positions, it’d be possible for one of the players to have a significant advantage over the other based on the starting position. That isn’t fair. White and black having the same starting position avoids this. Well, considering that white moves first anyway, the same objection applies to chess960. See https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/5344/starting-positions-in-chess960-where-black-is-definitely-worse

Both are great.

@ThunderClap said in #45:

Why ? I Am A Chess Player @Prophiscient ,,, I Play Chess ... Chess 960 I don't enjoy sorry but that's just me . I get the feeling you want to replace Chess or I guess you was just asking why I guess people play Chess ,,, Well Chess is Chess & nothing will change that it's the greatest game ever invented . I Love Chess the way it is with any 'faults' people may find @Prophiscient Chess is the greatest game ever invented

Right, but I’m asking why you think chess is better than chess960.

@ThunderClap said in #45: > Why ? I Am A Chess Player @Prophiscient ,,, I Play Chess ... Chess 960 I don't enjoy sorry but that's just me . I get the feeling you want to replace Chess or I guess you was just asking why I guess people play Chess ,,, Well Chess is Chess & nothing will change that it's the greatest game ever invented . I Love Chess the way it is with any 'faults' people may find @Prophiscient Chess is the greatest game ever invented Right, but I’m asking why you think chess is better than chess960.