MC‘s real statement • page 1/8 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

CM Sarg0n

#1

https://twitter.com/magnuscarlsen/status/1574482694406565888?s=46&t=zz_jT-L9Pzb665_654NhJw

gravling

#2

Good thing that he comes clear and finally make a formal accusation. At least we now know what we are talking about.

iBlunderWithFriends edited

#3

"I had the impression that he wasn't tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions, while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do."

https://i.imgur.com/necQBNp.png

"I had the impression that he wasn't tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions, while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do." https://i.imgur.com/necQBNp.png

jadubovic

#4

I gather from Carlsen's statement that Carlsen's team has perhaps sought permission from Niemann to go public with a more detailed statement of evidence, but Niemann has not yet agreed to allow Carlsen to speak about this.

It would be interesting to hear from Hans Niemann. Does Niemann acknowledge that Carlsen has been threatened with a defamation lawsuit if Carlsen makes a more detailed statement?

I gather from Carlsen's statement that Carlsen's team has perhaps sought permission from Niemann to go public with a more detailed statement of evidence, but Niemann has not yet agreed to allow Carlsen to speak about this. It would be interesting to hear from Hans Niemann. Does Niemann acknowledge that Carlsen has been threatened with a defamation lawsuit if Carlsen makes a more detailed statement?

jadubovic

#5

For those who have trouble accessing the Carlsen statement in screen capture form as a tween, here's text format, copied from chess.com:

Dear Chess World,

At the 2022 Sinquefield Cup, I made the unprecedented professional decision to withdraw from the tournament after my round three game against Hans Niemann. A week later during the Champions Chess Tour, I resigned against Hans Niemann after playing only one move.

I know that my actions have frustrated many in the chess community. I’m frustrated. I want to play chess. I want to continue to play chess at the highest level in the best events.

I believe that cheating in chess is a big deal and an existential threat to the game. I also believe that chess organizers and all those who care about the sanctity of the game we love should seriously consider increasing security measures and methods of cheat detection for over the board chess. When Niemann was invited last minute to the 2022 Sinquefield Cup, I strongly considered withdrawing prior to the event. I ultimately chose to play.

I believe that Niemann has cheated more — and more recently — than that he has publicly admitted. His over the board progress has been unusual, and throughout our game in the Sinquefield Cup I had the impression that he wasn’t tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions, while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do. This game contributed to changing my perspective.

We must do something about cheating, and for my part going forward, I don’t want to play against people that have cheated repeatedly in the past, because I don’t know what they are capable of doing in the future.

There is more that I would like to say. Unfortunately, at this time I am limited in what I can say without explicit permission from Niemann to speak openly. So far I have only been able to speak with my actions, and those actions have stated clearly that I am not willing to play chess with Niemann. I hope that the truth on this matter comes out, whatever it may be.

Sincerely,
Magnus Carlsen – World Chess Champion

For those who have trouble accessing the Carlsen statement in screen capture form as a tween, here's text format, copied from chess.com: Dear Chess World, At the 2022 Sinquefield Cup, I made the unprecedented professional decision to withdraw from the tournament after my round three game against Hans Niemann. A week later during the Champions Chess Tour, I resigned against Hans Niemann after playing only one move. I know that my actions have frustrated many in the chess community. I’m frustrated. I want to play chess. I want to continue to play chess at the highest level in the best events. I believe that cheating in chess is a big deal and an existential threat to the game. I also believe that chess organizers and all those who care about the sanctity of the game we love should seriously consider increasing security measures and methods of cheat detection for over the board chess. When Niemann was invited last minute to the 2022 Sinquefield Cup, I strongly considered withdrawing prior to the event. I ultimately chose to play. I believe that Niemann has cheated more — and more recently — than that he has publicly admitted. His over the board progress has been unusual, and throughout our game in the Sinquefield Cup I had the impression that he wasn’t tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions, while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do. This game contributed to changing my perspective. We must do something about cheating, and for my part going forward, I don’t want to play against people that have cheated repeatedly in the past, because I don’t know what they are capable of doing in the future. There is more that I would like to say. Unfortunately, at this time I am limited in what I can say without explicit permission from Niemann to speak openly. So far I have only been able to speak with my actions, and those actions have stated clearly that I am not willing to play chess with Niemann. I hope that the truth on this matter comes out, whatever it may be. Sincerely, Magnus Carlsen – World Chess Champion

VTWood

#6

No substance whatsoever to Carlsen's accusation. His belief is meaningless absent concrete proof that Niemann cheated otb in St. Louis.

NOTE to Carlsen: You do not need Niemann's permission to set forth factual proof that Niemann cheated otb against you.

All Carlsen has presented is supposition and suspicion. Carsen is a disgrace to his championship.

No substance whatsoever to Carlsen's accusation. His belief is meaningless absent concrete proof that Niemann cheated otb in St. Louis. NOTE to Carlsen: You do not need Niemann's permission to set forth factual proof that Niemann cheated otb against you. All Carlsen has presented is supposition and suspicion. Carsen is a disgrace to his championship.

MentalFugues edited

#7

Andrew Tang's response: "give magnus credit for having the balls to talk about an issue the chess community wanted to pretend doesnt exist" https://twitter.com/penguingm1/status/1574490002083356675

This touches on one of the things that first came to my mind after seeing Carlsen's statement. Even fully accepting what he is saying and that his suspicions of cheating during the recent tournament are justified (and not just a result of confirmation bias), is Niemann really the only person? Are there others Carlsen now won't play as well (certainly Niemann isn't the only top player to have been caught cheating in the past)? What sort of future system is he hoping for? So much to sort through here . . .

Andrew Tang's response: "give magnus credit for having the balls to talk about an issue the chess community wanted to pretend doesnt exist" https://twitter.com/penguingm1/status/1574490002083356675 This touches on one of the things that first came to my mind after seeing Carlsen's statement. Even fully accepting what he is saying and that his suspicions of cheating during the recent tournament are justified (and not just a result of confirmation bias), is Niemann really the only person? Are there others Carlsen now won't play as well (certainly Niemann isn't the only top player to have been caught cheating in the past)? What sort of future system is he hoping for? So much to sort through here . . .

lizani

#8

Four important things I learned from the statement

It is impossible for a human to beat a chess god without sweating, squirming or looking distressed at critical moments.
Once a cheater, forever a cheater. No evidence is required.
The threat is stronger than the execution -if you were a cheater, the threat of more cheating is enough to make your opponents crumble.
Magnus is owned by Hans and can only speak with his permission.

Four important things I learned from the statement 1. It is impossible for a human to beat a chess god without sweating, squirming or looking distressed at critical moments. 2. Once a cheater, forever a cheater. No evidence is required. 3. The threat is stronger than the execution -if you were a cheater, the threat of more cheating is enough to make your opponents crumble. 4. Magnus is owned by Hans and can only speak with his permission.

darKnight1d4

#9

Am I reading this right? He relased the most poorly justified response we could have expected which is the obligatory "cheating is bad" stuff , no apologies for the way he handled it and then going on to make even more insinuations against hans cheating without presenting any evidence. Also seemingly hiding behind the excuse for providing no justifications by implying legal trouble when he's just accused hans in the strongest possible terms of cheating. What else is there possibly left for him to alledge against hans that he hasn't already told the whole world?

pretzelattack1

#10

Nieman has been accused of cheating by several parties, and others such as Aronian and Caruana have said they feel uncomfortable playing him. for those trying to make this solely about Magnus being upset at losing why has he never voiced suspicions about another player. I think Pragg has beaten him and Alireza (correct me if I'm wrong) but there has never been a controversy.