@Nomoreusernames said in #38:
> Because it's an accusation.
No, it's only an accusation if the facts are under dispute.
No one disputes that Niemann cheated over a 100 games online and lied about them. Not even you or Niemann.
This debate revolves around the question if Niemann cheated OTB, and if anyone is accusing him of cheating OTB. The latter really is a definite 'no'.
@codingmasterggg said in #31:
> I love how no one has even answered the gosh-darned question
> HOW THE HECK DID HE EVN CHEAT OTB?
> (And don't say anal beads.)
THIS
@Nomoreusernames said in #39:
> Then why didn't chess.con say that instead of "likely cheated"?
Why don't you or Niemann claim that chess com is wrong?
Btw, calling it 'chess con' is extremely childish. I don't like that site, but there really is nothing wrong with their cheat detection. Niemann actually did cheat there, a lot more than he is admitting to.
But I suppose that the Carlsen haters here first have to make up their minds what this is about in the first place:
Online cheating and accusations thereof?
OTB cheating and (presumed?) accusations thereof?
Because if it's the first this whining about anal beads makes absolutely no sense. And if it's the latter.. there aren't actually such accusations. There just aren't.
Don't tell me that OP is asking how to cheat online. That would be really stupid.
@Molurus said in #41:
> This debate revolves around the question if Niemann cheated OTB, and if anyone is accusing him of cheating OTB. The latter really is a definite 'no'.
A lot of people are saying that there are "reasons to be suspicious" about his OTB play or there are "red flags" regarding his performances OTB or whatever. They may not be saying he definitely cheated, and it's not an inherently unreasonable position to take, but it's still basically hot air if people can't say exactly what these things are red flags for or what they're suspicious of in terms of what he might have done and when.
@Molurus said in #41:
> No, it's only an accusation if the facts are under dispute.
>
> No one disputes that Niemann cheated over a 100 games online and lied about them. Not even you or Niemann.
>
> This debate revolves around the question if Niemann cheated OTB, and if anyone is accusing him of cheating OTB. The latter really is a definite 'no'.
Exactly.
As far as I can see, nobody has stated that Hans Niemann cheated at Sinquefield.
Not Carlsen.
Not me.
Not anyone else in this thread.
Nobody is accusing Hans of cheating in Sinquefield.
"There are too many red flags for me to comfortably continue in this tournament," is not an accusation.
The handful of GMs who were hesitant and nervous about Hans being announced as the replacement were not "pre-accusing" Hans of cheating. They were voicing some concerns based on very logical red flags.
@Molurus Lmao ur really gonna say in this whole ordeal that no one is accusing him of cheating OTB? *Really?*
@Molurus said in #44:
> Don't tell me that OP is asking how to cheat online. That would be really stupid.
You are right. That would be really stupid.
The point of the post was to try to show people that their claims against Niemann don't hold water because there is no evidence to back them..they do not even know how he "cheated"
@RamblinDave said in #45:
> ....if people can't say exactly what these things are red flags for or what they're suspicious of
This is part of the the list of red flags that Magnus will have been facing:
- Hans was/is a recent/current cheater.
- By Hans' own words "a miracle coincidence" in the opening prep.
- Hans' peculiar remarks after having just beat the worlds #1.
- Hans' abnormal post-game analysis of the game.
- A former teacher, and cheater, tweeting about being proud of Hans as a student and posting a picture of them embracing.
- Magnus' perception that he didn't feel as if Hans seemed aware of, much less troubled by, any of the challenges that Magnus put in the position...yet finding the correct answers to those challenges.
- Murmurs by Magnus' colleagues regarding concerns about Hans' legitimacy.
- Likely, Carlsen and other top GMs looked at Niemann's play in cash tournaments and made their conclusions.
- Longstanding concerns with cheating not being prevented and cheaters not being dissuaded and punished enough.
- Magnus will have felt as if it was his responsibility to step up and voice the issue.
When you've played GK to a draw as a 13 year old...and have been touring the world playing every single kind of chess player that there is...and then all of a sudden you're up against a plethora of unique and alarming instances, behaviours, and circumstances that you've never seen before...much less all coming from the same person...
...then you're allowed to process all of that...as best as you can...ad hoc...and make a decision as to if you're comfortable continuing or not.
Carlsen didn't have to speculate about exactly how Niemann might have been cheating because he wasn't even making an accusation.
He was put in a very peculiar position by a perfect storm of alarming behaviour, and he reacted.
@Molurus said in #43:
> Btw, calling it 'chess con' is extremely childish.
I use .con instead of .com so it doesn't auto create a link. You are really good at false accusations, and misplaced insults, I can see why you are drawn to Hikaru , Magnus and chess.con
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