If Hans is cheating, then how is he doing it?

@Molurus said in #19:

Disregarding the answer to the question if he cheated OTB or not (we may never know), it is fascinating how a large group of people insists on defending a guy who actually has cheated over 100 games online.

I'm not defending hanns. I'm attacking how magnus and chess.com behaved.

another way to frame what chess.com said, they said hanns stopped cheating in 2020 and they have no evidence he cheated otb.

yet, they banned him in 2022 the day after beating magnus otb, the same day magnus quit and implied hanns cheated.

Now people are walking back on the meaning of magnus quitting and chess.com banning hanns and pretending magnus didn't imply hanns cheated. They say things like magnus just doesn't trust hanns. That's not a valid reason to quit a tournament.

@Molurus Because I don't think he's necessarily an asshole. I have cheated over 200 games here and I'm a ban on sight user because of it. You might think as a result that I am an asshole. And you might be right. But I am still trying to be a better person and have learned a moral lesson from it. I don't think that it makes me completely irredeemable. That is just an example.

As for Hans, he did mistakes when he was A CHILD. And people are witch-hunting him and harassing him for it. It is very wrong and cruel. If anything Magnus is the real ass here.

Cry like you did when Hans beat Magnus. The GMs will have to learn to respect his chess game, or else they will have consequences for it.

Well they interviewed Hans and Magnus about this question and there's been many theory's.

I can't help but wonder how anal beads would signal like Rb2 for example I fear we shall never get to the bottom of this question.

@Mrchess78 Tbh, I wonder the same.

@Molurus said in #20:

As I've pointed out.. many people defending Niemann accuse people who don't trust him of accusing him of cheating. While they actually don't.

This, to me, is just a silly debating strategy. If I say that I don't trust him, I don't have any burdon of proof. I just don't trust him.

Now you might say: "innocent until proven guilty". And I would agree. Here's the probleem: Niemann cannot be called innocent. He has actually cheated over 100 games. Do we really need to prove he cheated 101?

As far as I'm concerned, Niemann's credibility has already been completely distroyed by himself. Which makes the question 'did he cheat OTB against Carlsen?' not all that interesting.

So you agree then that there is no reason to suspect Hans of cheating OTB and his win against Carlsen was legit?

@h2b2 said in #13:

magnus did imply hanns cheated against him.

Magnus did not imply anything.

Magnus stated, flat out, that there was a plethora of abnormal, bizarre, and suspicious behaviours and circumstances, and it made him uncomfortable; he stated that it was unfair that he should have to play under such pressure, and that, therefore, he had no choice but to withdraw from the tournament.

This is not the same as an accusation.

This is the same as feeling uncomfortable and guarding our children when a registered offender is staring at them.
It's not an accusation, it's an uncomfortable reaction to a known predator.

Let's look at it:

• Hans was/is a recent/current cheater.

• By Hans' own words "a miracle coincidence" in the opening prep.

• Hans' peculiar remarks after having just beat the worlds #1.

• Hans' abnormal post-game analysis of the game.

• A former teacher, and cheater, tweeting about being proud of Hans as a student and posting a picture of them embracing.

• Magnus' perception that he didn't feel as if Hans seemed aware of, much less troubled by, any of the challenges that Magnus put in the position...yet finding the correct answers to those challenges.

• Murmurs by Magnus' colleagues regarding concerns about Hans' legitimacy.

• Likely, Carlsen and other top GMs looked at Niemann's play in cash tournaments and made their conclusions.

• Longstanding concerns with cheating not being prevented and cheaters not being dissuaded and punished enough.

• Magnus will have felt as if it was his responsibility to step up and voice the issue.

This is the perfect storm of pressure that Carlsen was under.

Lastly, anything and everything that we chastise in Magnus' actions...is 100% fruit of the poisonous tree which cheaters planted. All Magnus did was object to being forced to having to play under the conditions that cheaters have imposed.

One thing is for absolute certain...it was not the loss that caused Magnus to withdraw.
It was the perfect storm of salient concern and suspicion which Hans created around himself.

"Honest players should keep their mouths shut, somehow sit and play chess like normal, and just completely ignore and presume innocence at all times, regardless of a myriad of red flags that 'said' cheater continues to pose."

This position is completely untenable.

Everything that people are asking of Magnus is untenable and completely lacks empathy for the position that he was in, alongside his ad hoc response to the position that he was in.

@Onyx_Chess
So if Magnus didn't imply anything then why did he withdraw from the Sinquefield Cup? Why did he resign the game against Niemann at the Julius Bär Generation Cup? Aren't those hints? It couldn't be more obvious.
Unless he wanted to imply anything, his actions were utterly meaningless and baseless. And unsportsmanlike at the same time. That should immediately lead to Carlsen being banned by FIDE!

Picks up popcorn, leans back in chair... let the same ongoing argument commence...

@odoaker2015 said in #27:

@Onyx_Chess
So if Magnus didn't imply anything then why did he withdraw from the Sinquefield Cup? Why did he resign the game against Niemann at the Julius Bär Generation Cup?

This is the reason why he withdrew.
No accusation is present.

Let's look at it:

• Hans was/is a recent/current cheater.

• By Hans' own words "a miracle coincidence" in the opening prep.

• Hans' peculiar remarks after having just beat the worlds #1.

• Hans' abnormal post-game analysis of the game.

• A former teacher, and cheater, tweeting about being proud of Hans as a student and posting a picture of them embracing.

• Magnus' perception that he didn't feel as if Hans seemed aware of, much less troubled by, any of the challenges that Magnus put in the position...yet finding the correct answers to those challenges.

• Murmurs by Magnus' colleagues regarding concerns about Hans' legitimacy.

• Likely, Carlsen and other top GMs looked at Niemann's play in cash tournaments and made their conclusions.

• Longstanding concerns with cheating not being prevented and cheaters not being dissuaded and punished enough.

• Magnus will have felt as if it was his responsibility to step up and voice the issue

@odoaker2015 said in #27:

Unless he wanted to imply anything, his actions were utterly meaningless and baseless. And unsportsmanlike at the same time. That should immediately lead to Carlsen being banned by FIDE!

He clearly is a witch.

It's probably a good thing you didn't live a few hundred years ago. You're completely unreasonable.