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How to calculate pawn endgames?

#11

Did somebody already mention 'the square' ?

Once I began to understand this single crucial endgame idea then very often calculation is not necessary, not even for pretty long lines sometimes ... and it's seen all the time in endgame puzzles too ...

Did somebody already mention 'the square' ? Once I began to understand this single crucial endgame idea then very often calculation is not necessary, not even for pretty long lines sometimes ... and it's seen all the time in endgame puzzles too ...
#12

@Ben10Tenyson said in #2:

Google naroditsky pawn endgames

This is the best piece of advice you can get. It's free online. I have started doing this series. It is brilliant. Learn it by heart as it were: the concepts I mean. Applying the key concepts like king activity, passed pawns, outside passed pawns, counting moves, queening with check and so on will give you the power to look for the winning tactics. I have just started on this but now I have a non-chess project to finish. When I finish that, I will go straight back to this course and try to deep learn it all: the key concepts I mean. The key concepts will guide your tactical move searches: which lines to search to find the tactical and concrete win or the Houdini escape draw.

@Ben10Tenyson said in #2: > Google naroditsky pawn endgames This is the best piece of advice you can get. It's free online. I have started doing this series. It is brilliant. Learn it by heart as it were: the concepts I mean. Applying the key concepts like king activity, passed pawns, outside passed pawns, counting moves, queening with check and so on will give you the power to look for the winning tactics. I have just started on this but now I have a non-chess project to finish. When I finish that, I will go straight back to this course and try to deep learn it all: the key concepts I mean. The key concepts will guide your tactical move searches: which lines to search to find the tactical and concrete win or the Houdini escape draw.
#13

@boilingFrog said in #11:

Did somebody already mention 'the square' ?

Once I began to understand this single crucial endgame idea then very often calculation is not necessary, not even for pretty long lines sometimes ... and it's seen all the time in endgame puzzles too ...

Yes twice.. but nothing wrong with mentioning it again. This is how to convert dynamic multistep into spatial static thinking. not more calculation each time. can use that as building block in the multitheme endgame problems, while planning. (another level of calculation, not always stuck in the turn by turn.. An alternative to raw random experience, looking at that. But has to be tested hands-on still. otherwise, it won't be recallable when the real time situation happens, only in postgame recognition when some one helps you see that by the mere mention of it.. Why did I not think of that... both brain.. but in cooperation.

Also, I find that having a mnemonic diagtram of the square that does not need extra memory of whose turn it is to be usable, because the pawn placement is outside the square, and the obvious worst case would be that it is pawn color turn, would make that such diagram to remember about the "square" would have the racing king where it needs to be in order to catch the imminent moving pawn.. otherwise, and often presented.. I would always hesitate about which turn was it.. do i need to be on the square already or outside.. one bit of information less needed (I have a tendency to prefer all information in the 2d pic).

@boilingFrog said in #11: > Did somebody already mention 'the square' ? > > Once I began to understand this single crucial endgame idea then very often calculation is not necessary, not even for pretty long lines sometimes ... and it's seen all the time in endgame puzzles too ... Yes twice.. but nothing wrong with mentioning it again. This is how to convert dynamic multistep into spatial static thinking. not more calculation each time. can use that as building block in the multitheme endgame problems, while planning. (another level of calculation, not always stuck in the turn by turn.. An alternative to raw random experience, looking at that. But has to be tested hands-on still. otherwise, it won't be recallable when the real time situation happens, only in postgame recognition when some one helps you see that by the mere mention of it.. Why did I not think of that... both brain.. but in cooperation. Also, I find that having a mnemonic diagtram of the square that does not need extra memory of whose turn it is to be usable, because the pawn placement is outside the square, and the obvious worst case would be that it is pawn color turn, would make that such diagram to remember about the "square" would have the racing king where it needs to be in order to catch the imminent moving pawn.. otherwise, and often presented.. I would always hesitate about which turn was it.. do i need to be on the square already or outside.. one bit of information less needed (I have a tendency to prefer all information in the 2d pic).
#14

@rksantosh said in #1:

How to calculate pawn endgames?

You might find this blog post helpful, "Pawn Endgames, Old-School Instruction by Edward Lasker:" https://lichess.org/@/CaseyReese/blog/pawn-endgames/USXcp9Br

@rksantosh said in #1: > How to calculate pawn endgames? You might find this blog post helpful, "Pawn Endgames, Old-School Instruction by Edward Lasker:" https://lichess.org/@/CaseyReese/blog/pawn-endgames/USXcp9Br
#16

@rksantosh said in #1:

how do I? I know the square rule, but complex pawn endgame where only specific, very specific moves win.. those are hard..

Basically you are asking how to calculate brute-force!? Train, what else?

@rksantosh said in #1: > how do I? I know the square rule, but complex pawn endgame where only specific, very specific moves win.. those are hard.. Basically you are asking how to calculate brute-force!? Train, what else?
#17

are those endgames you encounter or those being presented to you by some book.

They usually, by econnomy of diagram and overall book space, propose positions that are already on some critical boundary.

use your intuition to fudge such positions around until you see an imbalance you can recognize or deal with the dynamics of, then fudge it back the other way small steps at a time.

the idea is to isolate into problems you can see some solution without have to do brute force.

Often, given a problem, people will only try to reconfigure the position using legal moves from it.. it may be faster is some cases to play ex-machina, and change the position at the start any way you want. mutations. but this is hard to do without some bottom set of building blocks you can recognize when doing mutation is search of them..

one mutation, can also be, take a piece out.. and see how that changes the situation.. there are many dimension you can fudge that can help you see the building blocks you might aim for.. I still think start with what you know..

you know KP vs k... really.. have you moved the pawn all over the board for given king placements. sounds tedious. ok then.. take a case of that material class.. which you know.. and maybe a another pawn for the side without a pawn...

But the point that you are bringing up, seems to be about usual presentation, trying to be parsimonious and like puzzles spectacular about what you need to do. I think if you can't reach the mountain, make the mountain come to you.. and forget the rock at the base of it.. it is a red herring...

perhaps if you gabe specific examples. or what you mean by endgames.. your games near the end.. The 100 practical endgames that everyone should know. compositions.. EGTB?

the notion of critical versus roomy position (where there are more than one good move) is a good thing already to be able to sense... if you are talking from game experience..

if from book. fudge them. doodle with them in some private study of yours far from anyone's eyes.. you don,t have the book constraints on size and numerous diagrams. on lichess studies they can fit in one chapter..

make more chapters than too many variations within one chapter.. one chapter per fudging experiment.. don,t go mad with one only.. try to find the easiest one of your alterations.. I can't prove that any of that will make you improve but at least you will be in control of your experience, and could build your own questions in relation to the prosposed challenge.. At least, you could have fun doing that.. instead of waiting for a future improvement reward.

are those endgames you encounter or those being presented to you by some book. They usually, by econnomy of diagram and overall book space, propose positions that are already on some critical boundary. use your intuition to fudge such positions around until you see an imbalance you can recognize or deal with the dynamics of, then fudge it back the other way small steps at a time. the idea is to isolate into problems you can see some solution without have to do brute force. Often, given a problem, people will only try to reconfigure the position using legal moves from it.. it may be faster is some cases to play ex-machina, and change the position at the start any way you want. mutations. but this is hard to do without some bottom set of building blocks you can recognize when doing mutation is search of them.. one mutation, can also be, take a piece out.. and see how that changes the situation.. there are many dimension you can fudge that can help you see the building blocks you might aim for.. I still think start with what you know.. you know KP vs k... really.. have you moved the pawn all over the board for given king placements. sounds tedious. ok then.. take a case of that material class.. which you know.. and maybe a another pawn for the side without a pawn... But the point that you are bringing up, seems to be about usual presentation, trying to be parsimonious and like puzzles spectacular about what you need to do. I think if you can't reach the mountain, make the mountain come to you.. and forget the rock at the base of it.. it is a red herring... perhaps if you gabe specific examples. or what you mean by endgames.. your games near the end.. The 100 practical endgames that everyone should know. compositions.. EGTB? the notion of critical versus roomy position (where there are more than one good move) is a good thing already to be able to sense... if you are talking from game experience.. if from book. fudge them. doodle with them in some private study of yours far from anyone's eyes.. you don,t have the book constraints on size and numerous diagrams. on lichess studies they can fit in one chapter.. make more chapters than too many variations within one chapter.. one chapter per fudging experiment.. don,t go mad with one only.. try to find the easiest one of your alterations.. I can't prove that any of that will make you improve but at least you will be in control of your experience, and could build your own questions in relation to the prosposed challenge.. At least, you could have fun doing that.. instead of waiting for a future improvement reward.
#18

Pawn only endings can be very difficult to calculate for sure. Often the advice is to avoid converting to pawn only endings unless you are absolutely sure of the outcome.

This is another resource that covers the topic (about 70 pages equivalent )
https://www.ragchess.com/ultimate-guide-to-pawn-endgames/

A search on 'naroditsky pawn endgames' that someone suggested brings up good content which I have started to go over.

Chess Endgame Training by Bernd Rosen with 5 chapters of them focused on pawn endgames.
Alex Fishbein's King and Pawn Endgames
For details, Encyclopedia of Chess Endings, Volume 1, Pawn Endings (375 pages)
Cheers

Pawn only endings can be very difficult to calculate for sure. Often the advice is to avoid converting to pawn only endings unless you are absolutely sure of the outcome. This is another resource that covers the topic (about 70 pages equivalent ) https://www.ragchess.com/ultimate-guide-to-pawn-endgames/ A search on 'naroditsky pawn endgames' that someone suggested brings up good content which I have started to go over. Chess Endgame Training by Bernd Rosen with 5 chapters of them focused on pawn endgames. Alex Fishbein's King and Pawn Endgames For details, Encyclopedia of Chess Endings, Volume 1, Pawn Endings (375 pages) Cheers
#19

@rksantosh said in #1:

how do I? I know the square rule, but complex pawn endgame where only specific, very specific moves win.. those are hard..

Lichess has some pawn endgame puzzles which are too difficult for Stockfish to solve real soon, and only tablebases know the right answer. I believe that such puzzles do not really benefit human chess players.
Apart from that pawn endgames are usually about brute-force calculation. It is possible to develop some intuition for it for the easier pawn endgame, but for the more difficult pawn endgame you probably need to resort to calculation.
Practicing calculation may make sense. As endgame book I would recommend "100 endgames you must know" by GM de la Villa, and chesstempo does have lots of endgame training puzzles.

@rksantosh said in #1: > how do I? I know the square rule, but complex pawn endgame where only specific, very specific moves win.. those are hard.. Lichess has some pawn endgame puzzles which are too difficult for Stockfish to solve real soon, and only tablebases know the right answer. I believe that such puzzles do not really benefit human chess players. Apart from that pawn endgames are usually about brute-force calculation. It is possible to develop some intuition for it for the easier pawn endgame, but for the more difficult pawn endgame you probably need to resort to calculation. Practicing calculation may make sense. As endgame book I would recommend "100 endgames you must know" by GM de la Villa, and chesstempo does have lots of endgame training puzzles.

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