lichess.org

Computer Errors / Mouse Slips

giving humans a choice is bad etiquette.

you'll cause a war
@Qveen_Sacrifice I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.

First, I absolutely do not think that refusing a takeback in a rated game is "bad etiquette" (your term), and I'd guess more than half of Lichess users feel similarly. In considering it bad etiquette, you're setting yourself up for a lot of resentment on here when other players are following usual custom and doing what most consider appropriate in a rated game.

If you want to undo mouse slips to see "the real move," why stop there? It follows that if you *really* want to see "the real move," you should allow your opponents to take back moves because they were, say, distracted by an incoming text message on their phones or some other momentary lapse of concentration. Opponent: "Can I take that back? I really wasn't thinking there and now I see it's a silly move?" Are you going to allow that in a rated game? If not, why not? By your own standards, if you refuse to allow an opponent to make his "real move," aren't you then guilty of bad etiquette?

I think the wiser course is to recognize that the moment you've chosen to play a rated game, you've entered the realm of competition, which works by an entirely different set of standards. In that arena, do-overs aren't usually done. If you want to be allowed to do-over your moves -- either because of mouse slips or any other reason -- you should really be sticking to casual games.
@GSP0113
Once again, failure to make a distinction. Your analogy fails.

I'm going to defer to the Masters, not "I'd guess more than half of Lichess users," as far as etiquette. Also, my points stand, that ERRORS in move transmission are not the same as:

a.) The intended moves (i.e., what the computer sent through was not the move in the player's brain)
b.) "Silly" moves or moves later regretted (i.e., conscious choices later shown to be unwise.)

I'm speaking purely of accidents, not failures to limit distractions, not any actual failure but rather a glitch in the matrix. Why is that so hard to understand? Are we just differing on the definition of the word 'accident?' Because that word should not apply to bad move choices, but rather, to faulty transmissions of a player's actual move.

Also, I don't resent other players for not giving takebacks, as I was never arguing that they are obligated to do so. It's simply poor etiquette not to allow one, especially one for something that is purely technological / accidental / chaotic in nature. It also suggests they're not a strong enough player to allow, y'know, a margin for error.
@Sarg0n Agreed. The subject has already been beaten like a dead horse over at ICC. From their website:

"IMPORTANT: Nobody, ever, is obligated to grant a takeback. Refusing to give a takeback is NOT unsportsman-like. Takebacks are NOT in the rules of chess. You, and you alone, are responsible for making your moves and avoiding 'mousos' and 'typos.' If you ask for a takeback from your opponent, he/she is not even obligated to respond to your request. It is inappropriate to criticize your opponent for not giving the takeback. ICC will not tolerate harrassment or complaints against an opponent who would not give a takeback."

www.chessclub.com/help/takeback

I don't know where @Qveen_Sacrifice is getting the idea that it's customary for CMs to grant takebacks in online rated play. If that's the case, it's the first I've heard of it.
For the record, I never said anyone was obligated to grant takebacks. :)

I merely feel that in certain circumstances, it is only human and kind to do so. And more in the spirit of the game, to be honest. I've most definitely seen IMs granting a customary one takeback per game, but again, to each their own.

/rant
"I merely feel that in certain circumstances, it is only human and kind to do so."

Baby says waaah.

Maybe you'll come across one IM or two that'll pity your nuts and give you a takeback. But to call it bad etiquette just because people aren't obligated to clean up after your carelessness is just sad. Mouseslips just means you weren't paying attention to either the game or your mouse, nobody should feel obligated to clean up after your mess.

But keep crying, baby. :)
...Disturbing your opponent and his concentration by requesting a takeback...Isn't THIS bad etiquette? !
@qveen_sacrifice

"Would you insist an opponent moved his Rook if they simply knocked the piece accidentally with their hand?? Hardly."

That's literally one of the rules of chess.

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