Racism in Chess

what's your take on racism in chess based on how the chess community is treating Gukesh as a world champion and frustrations westerners showing towards that ?

@king_killer333 said in #3:

No issue , why are you trying to cause trouble when there are no problems. xxx

if you thinkl there is no issue, then you are either blind or acting like one. which is it?

Why do I feel like this is ragebait...

@king_killer333 said in #1: > what's your take on racism in chess based on how the chess community is treating Gukesh as a world champion and frustrations westerners showing towards that ? @king_killer333 said in #3: > > No issue , why are you trying to cause trouble when there are no problems. xxx > > if you thinkl there is no issue, then you are either blind or acting like one. which is it? Why do I feel like this is ragebait...

lizani

#42

@lizani said in #31:

An example of racism in chess - take a look at the FIDE federations and you'll see it smacks of colonialism. Scotland and Wales, for example, are FIDE members when neither is a sovereign nation and they are absorbed into Great Britain as one team for the Olympics.
In Europe, regions like Catalonia or Siberia would have a stronger claim than Wales to be a FIDE member. Tamil Nadu could make a similar argument and imagine how strong their Olympiad team would be! The composition of FIDE reflects Western European colonialism and is outdated.

I have to laugh at the replies. Let's go back in history to 1924 when FIDE began. It was a pan-European organization with the exception of Argentina and Canada (no USA). Two of those original signatories, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, no longer exist and are replaced by smaller nations. One of the signatories is Great Britain - not England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales. This was an artificial deconstruction that happened later.
'Wales and Scotland have their own chess federation, rating systems and teams at Olympiads. There is no Great Britain team at Olympiads and I'll also note that Scotland and Wales have their own football teams too.'
Just because this happened in the past does not mean this cultural anachronism should be continued. There is no Scotland or Wales in the United Nations or the Olympics. That it's allowed by FIFA and FIDE, neither known for their political correctness, does not make it right.
'Merging it with the ECF would be as popular as merging Singapore into Malaysian chess federation.'
Really? Singapore and Malaysia have been completely independent of each other for more than half a century and such an analogy is ridiculous. Every time the Scottish have had a referendum for independence it has been unsuccessful.

@lizani said in #31: > An example of racism in chess - take a look at the FIDE federations and you'll see it smacks of colonialism. Scotland and Wales, for example, are FIDE members when neither is a sovereign nation and they are absorbed into Great Britain as one team for the Olympics. > In Europe, regions like Catalonia or Siberia would have a stronger claim than Wales to be a FIDE member. Tamil Nadu could make a similar argument and imagine how strong their Olympiad team would be! The composition of FIDE reflects Western European colonialism and is outdated. I have to laugh at the replies. Let's go back in history to 1924 when FIDE began. It was a pan-European organization with the exception of Argentina and Canada (no USA). Two of those original signatories, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, no longer exist and are replaced by smaller nations. One of the signatories is Great Britain - not England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales. This was an artificial deconstruction that happened later. 'Wales and Scotland have their own chess federation, rating systems and teams at Olympiads. There is no Great Britain team at Olympiads and I'll also note that Scotland and Wales have their own football teams too.' Just because this happened in the past does not mean this cultural anachronism should be continued. There is no Scotland or Wales in the United Nations or the Olympics. That it's allowed by FIFA and FIDE, neither known for their political correctness, does not make it right. 'Merging it with the ECF would be as popular as merging Singapore into Malaysian chess federation.' Really? Singapore and Malaysia have been completely independent of each other for more than half a century and such an analogy is ridiculous. Every time the Scottish have had a referendum for independence it has been unsuccessful.

KMcGeoch

#43

@lizani said in #42:

'Merging it with the ECF would be as popular as merging Singapore into Malaysian chess federation.'
Really? Singapore and Malaysia have been completely independent of each other for more than half a century and such an analogy is ridiculous. Every time the Scottish have had a referendum for independence it has been unsuccessful.

This is precisely why you don't comment on political situations in other countries where you lack expertise and analogy works since it's just as ridiculous to merge Scottish or Welsh Chess Federations into the English one. The Scottish Chess Association has existed since 1884 while the country of Malaysia has only existed in 1963 so the Scottish Chess Federation has actually existed for twice as long as Malaysia has as a country yet alone when Singapore was expelled from it in 1965.

I'll note that Ipsos released a poll yesterday stating current support for Scottish independence is at 52% (https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uk-opinion-polls/scotland-trends). A lot of the UK is dominated by England so all the other nations in the UK have independence movements with Scotland and Northern Ireland most likely to succeed if allowed to leave according to polling and demographics.

I'll also add that FIDE was founded on 20th July 1924. At that time Malaysia was known as British Malaya and should there have been a FIDE association for British Malaya you would also be arguing to have it absorbed into the ECF using the exact same argument you're using for Scotland and Wales.

In Scotland there's a Scottish governing body for Angling, Archery, Athletics, Badminton, Basketball, Boccia, Bowls, Boxing, Bridge, Canoeing, Climbing, Cricket, Croquet, Curling etc so if anything the Olympics is an outlier and IOC is well known as being as corrupt as FIFA.

Although all of the above has nothing to do with recognition Gukesh D gets so is largely irrelevant.

@lizani said in #42: > 'Merging it with the ECF would be as popular as merging Singapore into Malaysian chess federation.' > Really? Singapore and Malaysia have been completely independent of each other for more than half a century and such an analogy is ridiculous. Every time the Scottish have had a referendum for independence it has been unsuccessful. This is precisely why you don't comment on political situations in other countries where you lack expertise and analogy works since it's just as ridiculous to merge Scottish or Welsh Chess Federations into the English one. The Scottish Chess Association has existed since 1884 while the country of Malaysia has only existed in 1963 so the Scottish Chess Federation has actually existed for twice as long as Malaysia has as a country yet alone when Singapore was expelled from it in 1965. I'll note that Ipsos released a poll yesterday stating current support for Scottish independence is at 52% (https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uk-opinion-polls/scotland-trends). A lot of the UK is dominated by England so all the other nations in the UK have independence movements with Scotland and Northern Ireland most likely to succeed if allowed to leave according to polling and demographics. I'll also add that FIDE was founded on 20th July 1924. At that time Malaysia was known as British Malaya and should there have been a FIDE association for British Malaya you would also be arguing to have it absorbed into the ECF using the exact same argument you're using for Scotland and Wales. In Scotland there's a Scottish governing body for Angling, Archery, Athletics, Badminton, Basketball, Boccia, Bowls, Boxing, Bridge, Canoeing, Climbing, Cricket, Croquet, Curling etc so if anything the Olympics is an outlier and IOC is well known as being as corrupt as FIFA. Although all of the above has nothing to do with recognition Gukesh D gets so is largely irrelevant.

Alientcp

#44

@king_killer333 said in #1:

what's your take on racism in chess based on how the chess community is treating Gukesh as a world champion

It is well known that the one that should be champion is Magnus Carlsen, though he doesnt want to be anymore.

So, as far as almost anyone is concerned, he is an artificial champion, same as Ding. But other than knowing the worth of the title being diluted, I have not heard anything racist at all.

The title of World Champion was always associated with the strongest player at the time. It isnt the case no more, we got a significant downgrade. We all have to accept that, including him.

@king_killer333 said in #1: > what's your take on racism in chess based on how the chess community is treating Gukesh as a world champion It is well known that the one that should be champion is Magnus Carlsen, though he doesnt want to be anymore. So, as far as almost anyone is concerned, he is an artificial champion, same as Ding. But other than knowing the worth of the title being diluted, I have not heard anything racist at all. The title of World Champion was always associated with the strongest player at the time. It isnt the case no more, we got a significant downgrade. We all have to accept that, including him.