lichess is infested with cheaters, at this point it's just unplayable

@BlingGamer said in #57:

I get your point and I've seen the arguments made both for and against you.
To be brutally honest, chess is a game of humility, meaning those with larger ego's do tend to despise when someone with a lower rating beats them in a brutal manner (Not having a dig at you, just pointing something out).
And yes, unfortunately cheating is a serious problem. Not just in chess, but everywhere else.
The thing is you need to be the bigger person in situations like this. if you get smoked by a player with a lower rating, simply say 'gg' and if you think they are cheating, you should follow these criteria:

1. Check the accuracy of the game. Often this will be a blatant standout if someone is cheating or not. The lichess engine tends to punish very small things, so if they're say 800 and play to an accuracy of a titled player, then that's a reasonable reason to question the validity of the win.
2. Check the move times during the game: IF you think a player is suspicious, check their move time, it will usually be around 5 to 7 seconds, in this time (if they are cheating) they will play the move you made into their engine, wait for a response from the engine, and them play that move in your game.
3. check the game for moves that seem to make no sense: This is a little loose, seeing as rating is a major factor in this. IF an opponent plays an incredibly strange move, like sacrificing a rook for a pawn in an equal position, then you have very right to question this. If the mods find nothing wrong, this may have just simply been luck or a stroke of genius.

I am sorry that you've gone through all the hate from the forum, as you seem like a nice guy. But just remember before you fire bullets, remember who you're aiming them at.
Accuracy is meaningless.

@Autofill said in #61:

Accuracy is meaningless.

In higher rated games it is, however if it's a game between 2 700's and one has 99% accuracy, that's a little suspicious.

@BlingGamer said in #62:

In higher rated games it is, however if it's a game between 2 700's and one has 99% accuracy, that's a little suspicious.
f3 e5 g4

It is not that simple, you can't say accuracy is everything and also that it is meaningless. There are so many factors to consider here. Accuracy can be one of them. But you cannot just take a look at one game. Cheat detection is a sophisticated system, although it is not perfect. It can and it should strive towards perfection, but realistically, it can never be perfect.

@Pimander said in #59:

And will you guys stop being so horrible to people who have an opinion. There is no point in having a forum if you can't have differing opinions and debate them in a civilised way.

One user saying you think there is little cheating is a reasonable opinion. Another person saying they think there is a lot of cheating is also taking a reasonable position. Anyone trying to silence people by being hostile to differing opinions should be kicked off the forum.

Another thing the people who say there is little cheating don't realise, is that we may have already scientifically tested the website's ability to detect cheating in secret and know the result. The result may have been statistically analysed. We know you are wrong. THINK ABOUT IT!

not sure how much you can talk about "opinion" when you have objective truths ... there's a difference between opinions and propaganda, between discussing and trolling

if anyone should be chatbanned then it's ill-spirited trolls and salty egos, which is not the people you're addressing

in fact the bottom paragraph shows you're also siding with the trolls because you're just pretentiously making things up. Your "testing" is surely a humbug

any Lichess mod can confirm that the vast majority of players is honest and the vast majority of cheat reports sent is inaccurate

And I guess there's safe grounds to assume that cheat detection is pretty close to perfect. @sgtlaugh by the way, when you also confirm that Lichess is not infested, why do you thumb up posts that support claims of the opposite?

@Autofill said in #63:

f3 e5 g4
That's an exception. But nevertheless funny

@BlingGamer said in #66:

That's an exception. But nevertheless funny
There are plenty more exceptions, which puts doubt upon your previous statement.

@Autofill said in #67:

There are plenty more exceptions, which puts doubt upon your previous statement.
true. But if the games are relatively short and exploit gambits (Blackburne shilling, 7 move mate, 4 move mate, 2 move mate) Then it i slightly illegitimate.
IF the games span to 25+ then it is a little sus.

@Cedur216 said in #65:

not sure how much you can talk about "opinion" when you have objective truths ... there's a difference between opinions and propaganda, between discussing and trolling

if anyone should be chatbanned then it's ill-spirited trolls and salty egos, which is not the people you're addressing

in fact the bottom paragraph shows you're also siding with the trolls because you're just pretentiously making things up. Your "testing" is surely a humbug

any Lichess mod can confirm that the vast majority of players is honest and the vast majority of cheat reports sent is inaccurate

And I guess there's safe grounds to assume that cheat detection is pretty close to perfect. @sgtlaugh by the way, when you also confirm that Lichess is not infested, why do you thumb up posts that support claims of the opposite?

@Cedur216, it doesn't have to be black or white, does it? I do agree Lichess is not infested with cheaters, at least according to my experience. But that being said, I can respect a differing opinion, or I can simply like a post that is well-written and adds value to the discussion/debate. Or they could also share some useful insights, some of which I may agree with even though I do not agree with their conclusion.

I hope that clears it up. Cheers buddy!

@sgtlaugh said in #41:

Of all the games I've played here, only a handful of times I've suspected my opponent of cheating. At least from my experience, I can say that Lichess is not infested with cheaters.

@gradienthinking, why don't you share some of the games where you believe your opponents cheated? If you don't want to make allegations against players in public directly, you could import the PGN of some of these games, and then share. In that way, players would also be anonymous.

The main problem is that the time per move is the most important indicator in my opinion... and not so much that time is constant, but rather that the time is spend at weird moments (a lot of time for simple moves or almost no time for a briliancy). But ok, here goes one with only the moves so that it is anonymised.... The last move is not a mouse slip, jut me trying to see if my opponent would also take 3 seconds to capture my the bishop I offered like he/she did in every other move..... Fun fact, my opponent has an account from 2017, thus if it were the case that this person was cheating, this has gone undetected for quite a while (and will likely continue).

I think most people that say we should just not pay attention to cheaters are right. There is simply no point. But sometimes I find it hard, and that's on me. I'll work on that.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Bxc6 { C63 Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defense, Exchange Variation } dxc6 5. Nxe5 Qd4 6. Qh5+ g6 7. Nxg6 hxg6 8. Qxg6+ Kd8 9. O-O Bd6 10. g3 Qf6 11. exf5 Bxf5 12. Qxf6+ Nxf6 13. d3 Bh3 14. Re1 Kd7 15. Bd2 Rae8 16. Re3 Bc5 17. Rf3 Rhf8 18. Bc3 Ng4 19. Rxf8 Rxf8 20. d4 Bd6 21. Nd2 Rxf2 22. Ne4 Rg2+ 23. Kh1 Rxh2+ 24. Kg1 Bxg3 25. Nxg3 Rg2+ 26. Kf1 Rxg3+ 27. Ke2 Rg2+ 28. Kf3 Rxc2 29. Rh1 Bg2+ 30. Kxg4 Bxh1 31. Bd2 Rxd2 { White resigns. } 0-1