I am probably not skilled enough for the Sicilian but I am opposed to E4 E5

Its a real opening , what is your rating? are you playing against masters? If you have trouble with e5 then how can you say its not a real opening? Openings are relative to ones strenght if you cant play c5 or e5 how can you complain about the scandinavian?

I'm not saying the opening is bad or trying to be disrespectful, I am just stating that from my perspective, it never seemed to end up as anything impressive. I don't have a FIDE rating but I suppose it's around 800-900 range based on the games I played on Lichess and Chess.com

@MisterKobe said in #8: > Its a real opening , what is your rating? are you playing against masters? If you have trouble with e5 then how can you say its not a real opening? Openings are relative to ones strenght if you cant play c5 or e5 how can you complain about the scandinavian? I'm not saying the opening is bad or trying to be disrespectful, I am just stating that from my perspective, it never seemed to end up as anything impressive. I don't have a FIDE rating but I suppose it's around 800-900 range based on the games I played on Lichess and Chess.com

a_Tauri edited

#12

@YAYERZ said in #1:

Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with E5 but I find myself getting my pieces pinned, stumbling over each other and blundering the game away. At least with the Sicilian I feel like I can blunder on my own terms.

At what point did you feel comfortable breaking away from the "usual" openings and exploring?

Something similar happened to me.
I was always uncomfortable as Black, and I always played e5. At a certain point I thought about changing, and I found the French Defense to be my ideal environment. I also wanted to try the Sicilian, but it is too vast a galaxy to get lost in, it intimidates me, so I gave up the idea. The French is fine for me, and since I adopted it, playing as White or Black makes no difference to me.

Find an opening (or more than one) that satisfies you. It doesn't matter which one it is, one is as good as another, we are not masters. Experiment, try, and find it.

@YAYERZ said in #1: > Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with E5 but I find myself getting my pieces pinned, stumbling over each other and blundering the game away. At least with the Sicilian I feel like I can blunder on my own terms. > > At what point did you feel comfortable breaking away from the "usual" openings and exploring? Something similar happened to me. I was always uncomfortable as Black, and I always played e5. At a certain point I thought about changing, and I found the French Defense to be my ideal environment. I also wanted to try the Sicilian, but it is too vast a galaxy to get lost in, it intimidates me, so I gave up the idea. The French is fine for me, and since I adopted it, playing as White or Black makes no difference to me. Find an opening (or more than one) that satisfies you. It doesn't matter which one it is, one is as good as another, we are not masters. Experiment, try, and find it.

Planet_CHESS465

#13

@YAYERZ said in #1:

Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with E5 but I find myself getting my pieces pinned, stumbling over each other and blundering the game away. At least with the Sicilian I feel like I can blunder on my own terms.

At what point did you feel comfortable breaking away from the "usual" openings and exploring?

I am a petroff defense player (E4 e5 nf3 nf6) in a way it gives a 1.D4 vibe if you play it like this (almost like a slav/caro-kann)

e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Bd6 7. O-O O-O 8. c4 c6

MisterKobe

#14

@YAYERZ said in #11:

I'm not saying the opening is bad or trying to be disrespectful, I am just stating that from my perspective, it never seemed to end up as anything impressive. I don't have a FIDE rating but I suppose it's around 800-900 range based on the games I played on Lichess and Chess.com

You should do some research on it first. if your about a 900 rated player. Your not ever going to understand e4 e5 systems Unless you dedicate a year to them. The Scandinavian opening you as a black player always gets you your opening. I recommend the modern version it will get you good piece activity . The Scandi is not always moving out your queen on the 2 move. Play Nf6 after the pawn is taken and you have a open game that you control ! Lot of good tactics black can play. Look it up on Youtube. But if you insist on playing so called "sound" openings you must be prepared to learn dozens of lines to deal with Whites responces nothing wrong with that but how much work will you put in for it? Because it will be a lot of work!

Good luck to you!

@YAYERZ said in #11: > I'm not saying the opening is bad or trying to be disrespectful, I am just stating that from my perspective, it never seemed to end up as anything impressive. I don't have a FIDE rating but I suppose it's around 800-900 range based on the games I played on Lichess and Chess.com You should do some research on it first. if your about a 900 rated player. Your not ever going to understand e4 e5 systems Unless you dedicate a year to them. The Scandinavian opening you as a black player always gets you your opening. I recommend the modern version it will get you good piece activity . The Scandi is not always moving out your queen on the 2 move. Play Nf6 after the pawn is taken and you have a open game that you control ! Lot of good tactics black can play. Look it up on Youtube. But if you insist on playing so called "sound" openings you must be prepared to learn dozens of lines to deal with Whites responces nothing wrong with that but how much work will you put in for it? Because it will be a lot of work! Good luck to you!

Finnfinity

#15

@YAYERZ said in #4:

@Finnfinity I have personally never played it but I certainly am not opposed. Is it relatively intuitive to play or would you recommend a bit of study first?

Yeah i would study it a bit

@YAYERZ said in #4: > @Finnfinity I have personally never played it but I certainly am not opposed. Is it relatively intuitive to play or would you recommend a bit of study first? Yeah i would study it a bit

kindaspongey edited

#16

@verylate said in #9:

... If you are having problems with tactical vision, (pieces falling over one another, etc) then changing openings isn't really going to fix that. Maybe a bit, because ...
A relevant issue here is that there is a LOT of readily available material to help white to play the position after 1 e4 e5. It is at least somewhat understandable if one wants to somewhat avoid facing opponents who have relevant preparation.
I think that it is widely recognized that one is likely to have a lot of losses while learning the basics of reacting to 1 e4 with 1...e5. As I understand it, 1...e5 is suggested because of the belief that the losses will be educational.
"... You should play the simpler and more adventurous openings, from which you will learn how to use the pieces. Much later on you can go on to the more difficult openings - if you play them now you won't understand what you are doing ... Play the openings beginning [1 e4 e5]. ... if you haven't learnt how to play the open game you won't be able to use positional advantage even if you are able to get it. ..." - C. H. O'D. Alexander and T. J. Beach (1963)
"... With Black only the [1...e5] defense should be adopted on [1 e4]. ... As a rule [defenses which do not begin with 1...e5] are more complicated and require a greater knowledge of position play. ... none can be recommended for the inexperienced player, ..." - GM Reuben Fine (1941)
"... A beginner should avoid the Queen's Gambit and the French Defense and play open games instead! While he may not win as many games at first, he will in the long run be amply compensated by acquiring a thorough knowledge of the game. ...
... A position is called open after some of the center pawns have been exchanged, so that the pieces command open lines. The openings beginning with [1.e4 e5] are more apt than others to lead to open positions, since as a rule [d4] and exchange of center pawns will follow. On the other hand it is obviously more difficult to carry out the move [e4] after [1.d4], inasmuch as the [e4-square] is originally unprotected. This is the reason why [d-pawn] openings as a rule lead to closed positions. ..." - Richard Réti (~1929)
https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Chessboard-21st-Century-Richard/dp/1936490218?asin=B006ZQISDY&revisionId=f4836601&format=3&depth=1

@verylate said in #9: > ... If you are having problems with tactical vision, (pieces falling over one another, etc) then changing openings isn't really going to fix that. Maybe a bit, because ... A relevant issue here is that there is a LOT of readily available material to help white to play the position after 1 e4 e5. It is at least somewhat understandable if one wants to somewhat avoid facing opponents who have relevant preparation. I think that it is widely recognized that one is likely to have a lot of losses while learning the basics of reacting to 1 e4 with 1...e5. As I understand it, 1...e5 is suggested because of the belief that the losses will be educational. "... You should play the simpler and more adventurous openings, from which you will learn how to use the pieces. Much later on you can go on to the more difficult openings - if you play them now you won't understand what you are doing ... Play the openings beginning [1 e4 e5]. ... if you haven't learnt how to play the open game you won't be able to use positional advantage even if you are able to get it. ..." - C. H. O'D. Alexander and T. J. Beach (1963) "... With Black only the [1...e5] defense should be adopted on [1 e4]. ... As a rule [defenses which do not begin with 1...e5] are more complicated and require a greater knowledge of position play. ... none can be recommended for the inexperienced player, ..." - GM Reuben Fine (1941) "... A beginner should avoid the Queen's Gambit and the French Defense and play open games instead! While he may not win as many games at first, he will in the long run be amply compensated by acquiring a thorough knowledge of the game. ... ... A position is called open after some of the center pawns have been exchanged, so that the pieces command open lines. The openings beginning with [1.e4 e5] are more apt than others to lead to open positions, since as a rule [d4] and exchange of center pawns will follow. On the other hand it is obviously more difficult to carry out the move [e4] after [1.d4], inasmuch as the [e4-square] is originally unprotected. This is the reason why [d-pawn] openings as a rule lead to closed positions. ..." - Richard Réti (~1929) https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Chessboard-21st-Century-Richard/dp/1936490218?asin=B006ZQISDY&revisionId=f4836601&format=3&depth=1

YAYERZ edited

#17

That is very interesting insight @kindaspongey . I have been watching Daniel Naroditskys' old speed run videos and he mentioned playing the scotch open because new players often aren't used to playing with an open center and should begin to learn where and why certain pieces are positioned better. I tried to create open games and to my astonishment whether I was playing black or white the game would become locked up! I cant seem to figure out how to open the board up without sacking a piece or trading down

drSabrotna

#18

Play the Kalashnikov or the French. Develop your skills for a year then see if you want something new. Obviously with Kalashnikov you need to be aware of the anti Sicilians especially Rossolimo. It is a strong opening for a prepared white player. But Kalashnikov is easy Sicilian to learn and you get breathing room with early e5.
In my opinion it's an upgrade over the Petrov or Berlin. The games are less chaotic as some Najdorf or Sveshnikov can get.

Play the Kalashnikov or the French. Develop your skills for a year then see if you want something new. Obviously with Kalashnikov you need to be aware of the anti Sicilians especially Rossolimo. It is a strong opening for a prepared white player. But Kalashnikov is easy Sicilian to learn and you get breathing room with early e5. In my opinion it's an upgrade over the Petrov or Berlin. The games are less chaotic as some Najdorf or Sveshnikov can get.

kindaspongey

#19

@YAYERZ said in #17:

... I have been watching Daniel Naroditskys' old speed run videos and he mentioned playing the scotch open because new players often aren't used to playing with an open center and should begin to learn where and why certain pieces are positioned better. I tried to create open games and to my astonishment whether I was playing black or white the game would become locked up! I cant seem to figure out how to open the board up without sacking a piece or trading down
I think that one common issue is illustrated by your reaction to 27 c3 in the
https://lichess.org/IaS20dpZ

10+5 game ([Date "2023.11.30"] [Black "YAYERZ"]).
(1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 d3 e6 5 Bg5 Be7 6 Nf3 O-O 7 O-O Qc7 8 Ne2 h6 9 Bf4 Bd6 10 e5 Bxe5 11 Nxe5 Nxe5 12 Re1 d6 13 Nc3 a6 14 Bb3 Nc6 15 Ne2 e5 16 Bd2 b5 17 a4 Be6 18 Bxe6 fxe6 19 axb5 axb5 20 Nc3 b4 21 Ne2 Ng4 22 f3 Nf6 23 Ng3 d5 24 Qc1 Qb6 25 Kh1 c4 26 dxc4 dxc4 27 c3 b3 ...)
I think that many have the immediate urge to do SOMETHING to resolve a confrontation between 2 pawns like the ones on c3 and b4 after mohamedibnkamelsaid played 27 c3. Even if one perceives that one is not in danger of a pawn loss, it is not appealing to face the prospect of checking up on a pawn confrontation, move after move, in order to make sure that the situation continues to be okay. In this case, you chose 27...b3, and that is the sort of choice that tends to lock up a position. You could, of course, have chosen 27...bxc3, but it turns out that the machine believes that your best choice would have been to let the confrontation stand for the time being and live with the necessity to keep worrying about it.
Another common issue is your choice of reaction (1...c5) to 1 e4.
"... For players with very limited experience, ... the Sicilian Defence ... normally leaves you with little room to manoeuvre and is best left until your positional skills develop. ... I'm still not excited about my students playing the Sicilian Defence at [the stage where they have a moderate level of experience and some opening competence], because it almost always means playing with less space and development, and in some cases with exotic and not particularly instructive pawn-structures. ..." - IM John Watson (2010)
"... You should play the simpler and more adventurous openings, from which you will learn how to use the pieces. Much later on you can go on to the more difficult openings - if you play them now you won't understand what you are doing ... Play the openings beginning [1 e4 e5]. ... if you haven't learnt how to play the open game you won't be able to use positional advantage even if you are able to get it. ..." - C. H. O'D. Alexander and T. J. Beach (1963)
As White, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6, I think that one has a better chance of reaching an open position if one plays 3 Bc4 or 3 d4 instead of 3 Bb5.

@YAYERZ said in #17: > ... I have been watching Daniel Naroditskys' old speed run videos and he mentioned playing the scotch open because new players often aren't used to playing with an open center and should begin to learn where and why certain pieces are positioned better. I tried to create open games and to my astonishment whether I was playing black or white the game would become locked up! I cant seem to figure out how to open the board up without sacking a piece or trading down I think that one common issue is illustrated by your reaction to 27 c3 in the https://lichess.org/IaS20dpZ 10+5 game ([Date "2023.11.30"] [Black "YAYERZ"]). (1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 d3 e6 5 Bg5 Be7 6 Nf3 O-O 7 O-O Qc7 8 Ne2 h6 9 Bf4 Bd6 10 e5 Bxe5 11 Nxe5 Nxe5 12 Re1 d6 13 Nc3 a6 14 Bb3 Nc6 15 Ne2 e5 16 Bd2 b5 17 a4 Be6 18 Bxe6 fxe6 19 axb5 axb5 20 Nc3 b4 21 Ne2 Ng4 22 f3 Nf6 23 Ng3 d5 24 Qc1 Qb6 25 Kh1 c4 26 dxc4 dxc4 27 c3 b3 ...) I think that many have the immediate urge to do SOMETHING to resolve a confrontation between 2 pawns like the ones on c3 and b4 after mohamedibnkamelsaid played 27 c3. Even if one perceives that one is not in danger of a pawn loss, it is not appealing to face the prospect of checking up on a pawn confrontation, move after move, in order to make sure that the situation continues to be okay. In this case, you chose 27...b3, and that is the sort of choice that tends to lock up a position. You could, of course, have chosen 27...bxc3, but it turns out that the machine believes that your best choice would have been to let the confrontation stand for the time being and live with the necessity to keep worrying about it. Another common issue is your choice of reaction (1...c5) to 1 e4. "... For players with very limited experience, ... the Sicilian Defence ... normally leaves you with little room to manoeuvre and is best left until your positional skills develop. ... I'm still not excited about my students playing the Sicilian Defence at [the stage where they have a moderate level of experience and some opening competence], because it almost always means playing with less space and development, and in some cases with exotic and not particularly instructive pawn-structures. ..." - IM John Watson (2010) "... You should play the simpler and more adventurous openings, from which you will learn how to use the pieces. Much later on you can go on to the more difficult openings - if you play them now you won't understand what you are doing ... Play the openings beginning [1 e4 e5]. ... if you haven't learnt how to play the open game you won't be able to use positional advantage even if you are able to get it. ..." - C. H. O'D. Alexander and T. J. Beach (1963) As White, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6, I think that one has a better chance of reaching an open position if one plays 3 Bc4 or 3 d4 instead of 3 Bb5.

NM ThunderClap

#20

@YAYERZ said in #1:

Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with E5 but I find myself getting my pieces pinned, stumbling over each other and blundering the game away. At least with the Sicilian I feel like I can blunder on my own terms.

At what point did you feel comfortable breaking away from the "usual" openings and exploring?
J Breyer said White's game is in the last throes after 1 e4 .... He viewed the e4 pawn as a weakness & helped support the ideas of the hypermodern school of thought that helped develop such ideas that led to systems such as Alekhine's Defense &The Nimzo-Indian . The Sicilian is a fine opening but studying of complete games to study the middlegame and endings is more important than you might guess

@YAYERZ said in #1: > Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with E5 but I find myself getting my pieces pinned, stumbling over each other and blundering the game away. At least with the Sicilian I feel like I can blunder on my own terms. > > At what point did you feel comfortable breaking away from the "usual" openings and exploring? J Breyer said White's game is in the last throes after 1 e4 .... He viewed the e4 pawn as a weakness & helped support the ideas of the hypermodern school of thought that helped develop such ideas that led to systems such as Alekhine's Defense &The Nimzo-Indian . The Sicilian is a fine opening but studying of complete games to study the middlegame and endings is more important than you might guess

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.