How many cheaters OTB? • page 1/5 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

Today I talked with a master (over 2000 ELO) who told me in his opinion 30% of people OTB cheat, and in the range 1500-1900 in his opinion this goes up to 60-70%. Seems a lot to me! What do you think? I respect him very much, and I think his opinion is very worthy. Other opinions?
When I play OTB 90 min games I always see people wandering and going to the bathroom, and I never suspected them.

Titled players' opinions are the ones I'm most interested into. I'm not very interested, instead, to the opinions of those who never played FIDE events (don't take it personally, but you've just never been there).

Today I talked with a master (over 2000 ELO) who told me in his opinion 30% of people OTB cheat, and in the range 1500-1900 in his opinion this goes up to 60-70%. Seems a lot to me! What do you think? I respect him very much, and I think his opinion is very worthy. Other opinions? When I play OTB 90 min games I always see people wandering and going to the bathroom, and I never suspected them. Titled players' opinions are the ones I'm most interested into. I'm not very interested, instead, to the opinions of those who never played FIDE events (don't take it personally, but you've just never been there).

Cedur216

#2

What is his opinion based on? Doesn't sound like it's worth any respect, because there are far less cheaters online already, where it's much less complicated to cheat

What is his opinion based on? Doesn't sound like it's worth any respect, because there are far less cheaters *online* already, where it's much less complicated to cheat

Tenakel

edited

#3

I'm sorry, but your "master (over 2000 ELO)" has a paranoia.

Basch_of_Dalmasca edited

#4

@Cedur216 said in #2:

What is his opinion based on? Doesn't sound like it's worth any respect, because there are far less cheaters online already, where it's much less complicated to cheat

He thinks in Open B the risk to find cheaters is very high because:

They're local tournaments with very few security measures
In his opinion club players are more likely to do that

Seems a lot to me too, but this person is very respectable, I know him personally.

Also, what makes you think here there're so few cheaters? There're a lot undetected, just look at how many people have GMs ratings without being titled players. Do you believe them? Some are titled players who decided to stay anonymous, but many are cheaters, just my opinion. I know one who got multiple accounts banned (even on Chess.com) who kept creating new ones, now he has an account here since 2021 and he is completely undetected. He uses his high ratings to play the strong one part and sells lessons, and he is completely undisturbed. He also claims to be a Master even if he doesn't have a FIDE rating. His actual Rapid rating is 2406, completely ridicolous.

@Tenakel I personally know him, I don't think so.

@Cedur216 said in #2: > What is his opinion based on? Doesn't sound like it's worth any respect, because there are far less cheaters *online* already, where it's much less complicated to cheat He thinks in Open B the risk to find cheaters is very high because: 1) They're local tournaments with very few security measures 2) In his opinion club players are more likely to do that Seems a lot to me too, but this person is very respectable, I know him personally. Also, what makes you think here there're so few cheaters? There're a lot undetected, just look at how many people have GMs ratings without being titled players. Do you believe them? Some are titled players who decided to stay anonymous, but many are cheaters, just my opinion. I know one who got multiple accounts banned (even on Chess.com) who kept creating new ones, now he has an account here since 2021 and he is completely undetected. He uses his high ratings to play the strong one part and sells lessons, and he is completely undisturbed. He also claims to be a Master even if he doesn't have a FIDE rating. His actual Rapid rating is 2406, completely ridicolous. @Tenakel I personally know him, I don't think so.

Cedur216

#5

Lichess has hundred-thousands of players. How many do you think are banned in a day for cheating?

And no, the problem is not that Lichess had poor cheat detection (it's not). You don't have to be titled to be a good online specialist who can keep up with titled players; such high ratings are zero evidence.

I already had way too many discussions with paranoid people recently. It seems near impossible to get their convictions out of their heads.

Lichess has hundred-thousands of players. How many do you think are banned in a day for cheating? And no, the problem is not that Lichess had poor cheat detection (it's not). You don't have to be titled to be a good online specialist who can keep up with titled players; such high ratings are zero evidence. I already had way too many discussions with paranoid people recently. It seems near impossible to get their convictions out of their heads.

Basch_of_Dalmasca edited

#6

@Cedur216 said in #5:

Lichess has hundred-thousands of players. How many do you think are banned in a day for cheating?

And no, the problem is not that Lichess had poor cheat detection (it's not). You don't have to be titled to be a good online specialist who can keep up with titled players; such high ratings are zero evidence.

I already had way too many discussions with paranoid people recently. It seems near impossible to get their convictions out of their heads.

Some can get good online, but I believe it's rare when one is so good to be GM level he doesn't play OTB. If he's titled, why not resulting as a titled player? If he's not titled why, if he is so strong, he doesn't play OTB and earn money?

I believe there're few cheaters at lower ratings. Starting from 2300 Rapid I believe their number starts to significantly increase.

@Cedur216 said in #5: > Lichess has hundred-thousands of players. How many do you think are banned in a day for cheating? > > And no, the problem is not that Lichess had poor cheat detection (it's not). You don't have to be titled to be a good online specialist who can keep up with titled players; such high ratings are zero evidence. > > I already had way too many discussions with paranoid people recently. It seems near impossible to get their convictions out of their heads. Some can get good online, but I believe it's rare when one is so good to be GM level he doesn't play OTB. If he's titled, why not resulting as a titled player? If he's not titled why, if he is so strong, he doesn't play OTB and earn money? I believe there're few cheaters at lower ratings. Starting from 2300 Rapid I believe their number starts to significantly increase.

Cedur216

edited

#7

Online skills are different than OTB skills, you can certainly tell the difference between having 3+ hours OTB and having 10 minutes or even less online. There are people with like 2000 FIDE who are great at speed, tactics, creativity but they're lacking deep opening theory, pattern recognition and high-level planmaking - the stuff that greatly matters OTB. Some even openly admit they're too lazy for that, so don't be surprised about their 2700 blitz rating.

I agree that the relative ratio of cheaters increases at high ratings for the simple reasons: A) less people overall, and B) more incentives to cheat. I know chesscom has banned a considerable amount of titled players (and Lichess surely did too, except not revealing the numbers), but even there we're talking about something way less than like 30%.

Online skills are different than OTB skills, you can certainly tell the difference between having 3+ hours OTB and having 10 minutes or even less online. There are people with like 2000 FIDE who are great at speed, tactics, creativity but they're lacking deep opening theory, pattern recognition and high-level planmaking - the stuff that greatly matters OTB. Some even openly admit they're too lazy for that, so don't be surprised about their 2700 blitz rating. I agree that the relative ratio of cheaters increases at high ratings for the simple reasons: A) less people overall, and B) more incentives to cheat. I know chesscom has banned a considerable amount of titled players (and Lichess surely did too, except not revealing the numbers), but even there we're talking about something way less than like 30%.

NM MrPushwood

#8

@Basch_of_Dalmasca said in #1:

Titled players' opinions are the ones I'm most interested into. I'm not very interested, instead, to the opinions of those who never played FIDE events (don't take it personally, but you've just never been there).

I'm a titled player who's never played in a FIDE event. Though maybe I should've (you only need a 2000 rating to be a CM?).

@Basch_of_Dalmasca said in #1: > Titled players' opinions are the ones I'm most interested into. I'm not very interested, instead, to the opinions of those who never played FIDE events (don't take it personally, but you've just never been there). I'm a titled player who's never played in a FIDE event. Though maybe I should've (you only need a 2000 rating to be a CM?).

Basch_of_Dalmasca

#9

@MrPushwood

I don't know if he is a CM. He is a master in my nation rating system.

@MrPushwood I don't know if he is a CM. He is a master in my nation rating system.

Cedur216

#10

@MrPushwood said in #8:

I'm a titled player who's never played in a FIDE event. Though maybe I should've (you only need a 2000 rating to be a CM?).

2200 FIDE you need, if you want it. Or one of those many specific achievements you can find at Wikipedia

@MrPushwood said in #8: > I'm a titled player who's never played in a FIDE event. Though maybe I should've (you only need a 2000 rating to be a CM?). 2200 FIDE you need, if you want it. Or one of those many specific achievements you can find at Wikipedia