c4 the best initial move???? • page 2/5 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

GordonBradypus

#11

I remember a few years back it was showing 1.g3 for a while, that was kinda funny.

CM Sarg0n

#12

A position can only be a win or a draw. What do you mean by „best“?

CSKA_Moscou

#13

@Sarg0n said in #12:

A position can only be a win or a draw. What do you mean by „best“?

"Only"? and the defeat ?? I think that best must be able to represent for the player the feeling of being on a comfortable sofa with a soda and chips. the player must transcend this in the game

@Sarg0n said in #12: > A position can only be a win or a draw. What do you mean by „best“? "Only"? and the defeat ?? I think that best must be able to represent for the player the feeling of being on a comfortable sofa with a soda and chips. the player must transcend this in the game

FirstChessPlayer2012

#14

@Amitinga said in #1:

Today I came across Stockfish saying that the best starting move is c4, it's correct?

I found this strange because it normally shows e4 as the best opening move.

Have there been any changes?
No, stockfish always recommends different openings at different times.

@Amitinga said in #1: > Today I came across Stockfish saying that the best starting move is c4, it's correct? > > I found this strange because it normally shows e4 as the best opening move. > > Have there been any changes? No, stockfish always recommends different openings at different times.

FirstChessPlayer2012

#15

@CSKA_Moscou said in #13:

"Only"? and the defeat ?? I think that best must be able to represent for the player the feeling of being on a comfortable sofa with a soda and chips. the player must transcend this in the game
Actually the defeat is a win for the opponent

@CSKA_Moscou said in #13: > "Only"? and the defeat ?? I think that best must be able to represent for the player the feeling of being on a comfortable sofa with a soda and chips. the player must transcend this in the game Actually the defeat is a win for the opponent

FirstChessPlayer2012

#16

@GordonBradypus said in #11:

I remember a few years back it was showing 1.g3 for a while, that was kinda funny.
A few days ago it showed 1.Nf3 for me.

@GordonBradypus said in #11: > I remember a few years back it was showing 1.g3 for a while, that was kinda funny. A few days ago it showed 1.Nf3 for me.

kindaspongey

#17

"... there is no ‘best’ choice in a (strategic) position ... It is not enough to evaluate material, initiative, pawn structure and other structural considerations generically – these considerations should be held up against the characteristics of the two players. The style and personality of the combatants should be included in the decision process as well. This means that we should give up the assumption that in a given strategic position there is one best way to play which should be chosen by any player in the given position against any opponent sitting on the other side of the board. The assumption that chess is played on a board and against pieces should be abandoned and replaced by an approach which acknowledges that chess is played between opponents and that the aim is to win the game against this particular opponent ..." - GM Lars Bo Hansen (2005)
http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Foundations_of_Chess_Strategy.pdf

"... there is no ‘best’ choice in a (strategic) position ... It is not enough to evaluate material, initiative, pawn structure and other structural considerations generically – these considerations should be held up against the characteristics of the two players. The style and personality of the combatants should be included in the decision process as well. This means that we should give up the assumption that in a given strategic position there is one best way to play which should be chosen by any player in the given position against any opponent sitting on the other side of the board. The assumption that chess is played on a board and against pieces should be abandoned and replaced by an approach which acknowledges that chess is played between opponents and that the aim is to win the game against this particular opponent ..." - GM Lars Bo Hansen (2005) http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Foundations_of_Chess_Strategy.pdf

OctoPinky

#18

@FirstChessPlayer2012 said in #15:

Actually the defeat is a win for the opponent

I'll be using this a lot!

@FirstChessPlayer2012 said in #15: > Actually the defeat is a win for the opponent I'll be using this a lot!

Amitinga

#19

Today the best position in Stockfish is e4 again. Surprise Surprise.

mkubecek

#20

It's not about the day, what matters is version of the engine and how long you leave it running. The differences are so low that even with the same engine version, the "best move" (or line) changes multiple time as the depth grows. Out of curiosity, I left new SF 16 (40MB) running for a while and most of the time, first move was alternating between d4 and e4 (funny enough, lower depth suggested 1. d4 d5, higher 1. d4 Nf6). Then, suddenly, I got 1. Nf3 at depth 59 - and depth 62 (or earlier, I missed 60 and 61) is back to good old 1. e4 e5. (Although, while it used to be mostly Italian before, level 62 suggests Spanish.)

Morale of the story is: there are much better ways to pick an opening than "best line" suggested by Stockfish. Picking one randomly might be one of them. :-)

It's not about the day, what matters is version of the engine and how long you leave it running. The differences are so low that even with the same engine version, the "best move" (or line) changes multiple time as the depth grows. Out of curiosity, I left new SF 16 (40MB) running for a while and most of the time, first move was alternating between d4 and e4 (funny enough, lower depth suggested 1. d4 d5, higher 1. d4 Nf6). Then, suddenly, I got 1. Nf3 at depth 59 - and depth 62 (or earlier, I missed 60 and 61) is back to good old 1. e4 e5. (Although, while it used to be mostly Italian before, level 62 suggests Spanish.) Morale of the story is: there are much better ways to pick an opening than "best line" suggested by Stockfish. Picking one randomly might be one of them. :-)