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Why this game is not drawn

#1

I expected the game below to draw due to white having no material for a checkmate, even though black timed out:
https://en.lichess.org/s9Ay3z44/black

But instead, white won. I wonder why exactly?
Thanks in advance.

I expected the game below to draw due to white having no material for a checkmate, even though black timed out: https://en.lichess.org/s9Ay3z44/black But instead, white won. I wonder why exactly? Thanks in advance.
#4

@Arashara What was blacks move 1 move before the position you showed? It must have been a2. otherwise black is stalemated. a2 is already played and the black king is not in the corner.

@norfas The game should have been called a draw. Even if black attempted to help white checkmate him playing the worst moves, and white played perfectly it's still a draw because black will always stalemate before the above pattern is reached because the pawn is already on the 7th and can not give a tempo.

@Arashara What was blacks move 1 move before the position you showed? It must have been a2. otherwise black is stalemated. a2 is already played and the black king is not in the corner. @norfas The game should have been called a draw. Even if black attempted to help white checkmate him playing the worst moves, and white played perfectly it's still a draw because black will always stalemate before the above pattern is reached because the pawn is already on the 7th and can not give a tempo.
#5

I'll retract my statement if anyone can manage to lose the final position as black because I see no win for white possible due to stalemate.

I'll retract my statement if anyone can manage to lose the final position as black because I see no win for white possible due to stalemate.
#6

Actually found one myself... I think. Thing is though it's a very unrealistic mate that nobody would actually walk into. https://en.lichess.org/study/RvDkGq2N

Weather or not a draw on insufficient material should be called should not be totally reliant on help mates like this one where you must get in the corner for them and play absolutely terrible moves. Realistically speaking this mate would never occur because it's going to require white to interfere with the bishop and the corner in which case anyone would promote with queen and all of the sudden black is the one winning. The only winning line is through a losing line, blunder, then help mate... so I'd say draw.

Actually found one myself... I think. Thing is though it's a very unrealistic mate that nobody would actually walk into. https://en.lichess.org/study/RvDkGq2N Weather or not a draw on insufficient material should be called should not be totally reliant on help mates like this one where you must get in the corner for them and play absolutely terrible moves. Realistically speaking this mate would never occur because it's going to require white to interfere with the bishop and the corner in which case anyone would promote with queen and all of the sudden black is the one winning. The only winning line is through a losing line, blunder, then help mate... so I'd say draw.
#7

What would your criteria be for calling it a draw? There has to be a rigorous rule about this and no sequence of legal moves leading to checkmate is far more rigorous than it is very easy to avoid checkmate.

What would your criteria be for calling it a draw? There has to be a rigorous rule about this and no sequence of legal moves leading to checkmate is far more rigorous than it is very easy to avoid checkmate.
#8

I think there are a lot of topics like this occure because recently Lichess changed the rules in accordance to FIDE ones. I also think that those "helpmate wins" are ridiculous, but that's how they see a world now...

I think there are a lot of topics like this occure because recently Lichess changed the rules in accordance to FIDE ones. I also think that those "helpmate wins" are ridiculous, but that's how they see a world now...
#9

There is a helpmate that involves a discovered check.

https://en.lichess.org/study/EoGCasN3

In order to have a draw by time out there must be no legal sequence of moves that leads to the player who runs out of time getting mated not simply no way to force the player who ran out of time into checkmate.

There is a helpmate that involves a discovered check. https://en.lichess.org/study/EoGCasN3 In order to have a draw by time out there must be no legal sequence of moves that leads to the player who runs out of time getting mated not simply no way to force the player who ran out of time into checkmate.
#10

There's no easy way out. The last thing you want to have is a jury which decides that a mate is "realistic". So, sticking to official rules is the least evil.

PS: How to deal with the case knight mates the lone king in the corner by force? And K overstepping the time?
The only thing to assess positions "right" is the former "helpmate-minus-one rule": if you can avoid the mate one move before the mate then it's draw when overstepping. You really don't want that implemented, do you?

There's no easy way out. The last thing you want to have is a jury which decides that a mate is "realistic". So, sticking to official rules is the least evil. PS: How to deal with the case knight mates the lone king in the corner by force? And K overstepping the time? The only thing to assess positions "right" is the former "helpmate-minus-one rule": if you can avoid the mate one move before the mate then it's draw when overstepping. You really don't want that implemented, do you?

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