Why this game is not drawn • page 2/3 • Game analysis • lichess.org

This K+N vs K+p mate is the only single case where this rule can be implemented "fairly". How often did it happen? And now there will be thousands of those lone-bishop helpmates.

lurarose

#12

@dorhinj1

A good criteria would be that if you need a help mate to win, it must not be through only a losing line. In order to gain this help mate, you must allow the pawn to be able to be promoted.

To get that king into the cornered mate you must relinquish control of the promotion square and give yourself a lost position.

When the only winning lines are a suicide mission for the "winning" side then they shouldn't count as winning lines and the only path to victory should be through draws and wins.

Any position where you have just a knight, or just a bishop should be called draw.

I'm curious if the machine would have called OPs game a draw had it been the opposite color bishop instead.

@dorhinj1 A good criteria would be that if you need a help mate to win, it must not be through only a losing line. In order to gain this help mate, you must allow the pawn to be able to be promoted. To get that king into the cornered mate you must relinquish control of the promotion square and give yourself a lost position. When the only winning lines are a suicide mission for the "winning" side then they shouldn't count as winning lines and the only path to victory should be through draws and wins. Any position where you have just a knight, or just a bishop should be called draw. I'm curious if the machine would have called OPs game a draw had it been the opposite color bishop instead.

Alex_slow edited

#13

#12 - he still can promote to a bishop (opposite one), go to a right corner and be checkmated :) Forced!

dorhinj1

#14

Even that becomes complicated. Say you run out of time in a position down a piece. The only way for you to win would be through a losing line, since you are losing. However, it doesn't mean that it is impossibly unrealistic for you to win. The line between help mates and mates due to blunders is impossible to draw rigorously without having very complicated rules. It's best to keep the rules simple.

CM Sarg0n

edited

#15

Well, overstepping the time has to be regarded as to his own expense. HE has to show that he can draw. If he cannot then it's HIS problem. It's not about finding the way to mate for the player who has time left. If there's mate = no dead position = overstepping loses.

Clear rules and not a tome of explanations and exceptions.

Well, overstepping the time has to be regarded as to his own expense. HE has to show that he can draw. If he cannot then it's HIS problem. It's not about finding the way to mate for the player who has time left. If there's mate = no dead position = overstepping loses. Clear rules and not a tome of explanations and exceptions.

Alex_slow

#16

There was a clear rule before as well. "Lone bishop can not win against the ton of material", and all these cases were asigned as draws - clear enough for me.

azuaga

#17

this new rule is bad for the chess bullet .I hope lichess will change this

CM Sarg0n

#18

I like it best. It's clear, official and consequent. I can only recommend to get used to it because I predict a long lifetime. ;)

norfas

#19

Thank you for all your input, and a game study by @lurarose that shows theoretical checkmate in only 7 moves from my position.

I did not realize this is a recent change of rules on lichess.

Let's see if it has a long lifetime. :)

Thank you for all your input, and a game study by @lurarose that shows theoretical checkmate in only 7 moves from my position. I did not realize this is a recent change of rules on lichess. Let's see if it has a long lifetime. :)

Vinvin

#20

Nobody will play this very very stupid mate.
Lichess change for a stupid rule. Same stupid rule as FIDE.

Why do some people respect FIDE as this ?

Nobody will play this very very stupid mate. Lichess change for a stupid rule. Same stupid rule as FIDE. Why do some people respect FIDE as this ?