@chessalt2000 said in #20:
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How is a lifetime ban so crazy?
He punched a women in the top of the back. Then he did not correct his behavior. He's had multiple chances now. If he did, as described, going to a women's room and try to get them to open the door, his behavior would align with that of someone who is a true danger to the mental and physical health of women at tournaments.
There is no reason to prioritize his ability to play a game over the safety of other people. Let me ask you this, if he was let into the room, do you seriously think the women would have evaded harm? Trauma from assault does not have a deadline. And that is not a choice. So why is he owed a deadline before he's allowed back?
Yes he needs help, I could see allowing him back after something such as therapist and doctors saying his behavior will be different, putting their professional names on the line. But I do not believe in a unconditional "In 2 years/5 years, he will be allowed to play again" Deadline.
There are multiple witnesses to all of this. What ban would you press for if you were the person assaulted? How do you consider such things as people hating on the internet, to be worse than Sexual assault? I've received death threats on here following basic tournament protocol, It's unpleasant but it's certainly not traumatizing for life. Sexual assault is.
Alright, i'll try and ignore any future replies. Hard to do when I get such insane ones.
The problem is that women are able to make men feel uncomfortable too.
Ironically cause they pretend to feel uncomfortable.
At least women don't try to start touching.
There are social problems very hormone blockers are involved.
Where women start to feel uncomfortable cause the wrong men carry the wrong hormons. Which is more of a racist problem.
And excluding people that got problems with hormone pimples feels problematic.
About the incident during the US Championships:
A one-year suspension seems way too harsh.
To really judge the situation, we would need to hear from the videographer involved. But from what’s been described, his actions sound more like something that should be met with a reflective essay and a formal apology.
On Lichess, my family and I were deeply insulted by an IM — all because I declined a rematch after he lost a game. Lichess didn’t consider that sufficient grounds for suspension, even though I’d argue that was far worse.
An outburst like this seems forgivable to me.
It really depends on how forceful that push was — or whatever it is he’s said to have done. Maybe there are witnesses?
Regarding the harassment allegation, I don’t want to speculate. It’s essential to wait for a proper investigation. Generally speaking, such matters must never be downplayed.
I believe this situation is a bit overexaggerated, I believe some 90-day ban should be enough for him to visit again the doctors. Remember that Shevchenko got a 1-year ban for cheating, which is much worse for the game of chess than kicking somebody. I believe this incident is more for the police, not for FIDE.
Imagine a football player would do what he has done to a female referee. More than once. What would happen at once inf the major leagues to this player? The 90 day ban would be the first step ( i believe it would be 180 days) , after doing it again this player would be history.
So what we discuss here? If you can't show propper behaviour playing tournaments you are not allowed to play tournaments. I am a simple mind regarding this.
Do you people even understand what does it mean to punch someone from behind? This is so incredibely dangerous, a one year ban is a very approperaite punishment only for this action.
Like to punch a stranger just cause you are angry, not only do you have to be emotionally unstable, you have to treat the other person like someone 'below you'. I'm sure he wouldn't punch his mother right?
And regarding the sexual assault, assuming the accusations are true, someone who is clearly a danger to other players (following a stranger to their room, knocking and not leaving), not just make them feel uncomfortable, he should be banned as long, as he can show that he is no longer a threat. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care how, I guess a specialist would have to say so.
From the comments I've seen he's 19, so not a child. Doesn't matter if he's mentally ill or not, he's still a threat. He must take responsibility for his action, and players' safety should be prioritized. Depression or other shit doesn't justify being a threat to other people.
And no, travel costs aren't enough of a punishment, what even is this argument. Everyone has travel costs, it's not like if he behaved well, he would travel for free.
Revoking the title is a pretty tricky topic. I don't think his title should be revoked, it doesn't seem like a punishment connected to what he did, but on the other hand, every titled player 'works' for FIDE's public appear.
And in case the accusations are false, there should be big reprocussions for people who accused him.
Two biggest issues in OTB chess, cheating and harrasment should have a zero tolerance policy, so as soon as the allegations are proven true, or proven false, governing bodies should take action. Immediate action.
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For me it's pretty crazy hearing how many incidents happen by titled players. And I've never witnessed one, and I consider myself a pretty active chess player. Idk if this is rare in Europe, Poland specifically, or what.
Maybe it's just that during the game im very immersed, and after the game I'm analyzing, and preparing for the next one lol
@Gutzh said in #22:
> The problem is that women are able to make men feel uncomfortable too.
>
that is not the problem here
> Ironically cause they pretend to feel uncomfortable.
>
we don't have evidence that the victim is pretending, this seems like victim-blaming.
> At least women don't try to start touching.
> There are social problems very hormone blockers are involved.
>
where are you even going with this? I'm not sure it's even relevant to this case.
> Where women start to feel uncomfortable cause the wrong men carry the wrong hormons. Which is more of a racist problem.
???
> And excluding people that got problems with hormone pimples feels problematic.
I'm not sure quite what you mean by any of this tbh
@LonePine said in #23:
> About the incident during the US Championships:
>
> A one-year suspension seems way too harsh.
> To really judge the situation, we would need to hear from the videographer involved. But from what’s been described, his actions sound more like something that should be met with a reflective essay and a formal apology.
>
According to eyewitnesses, there was a deliberate and "well-prepared punch" from behind, which connected with her back. She didn't even see it coming, it was not some accidental bump or shove which was speculated about at the time.
https://x.com/LevAronian/status/1847014253477212247
The police were called and he was arrested and charged with 4th degree battery. He was expelled from the championship and banned from the St Louis Chess Club, and his US Chess membership suspended for a year.
How does writing an essay and making an apology seem appropriate for this?
> On Lichess, my family and I were deeply insulted by an IM — all because I declined a rematch after he lost a game. Lichess didn’t consider that sufficient grounds for suspension, even though I’d argue that was far worse.
>
Many here would disagree, whilst of course any inappropriate communications on lichess are not acceptable, I think it is a stretch to say it is worse than a man physically punching a woman after losing a game.
> An outburst like this seems forgivable to me.
and how does this help with player safety?
> It really depends on how forceful that push was — or whatever it is he’s said to have done. Maybe there are witnesses?
>
yes there were witnesses and there was a video which has quite rightly not been made public. from any witness accounts I have seen, it was not a push it was a punch.
> Regarding the harassment allegation, I don’t want to speculate. It’s essential to wait for a proper investigation. Generally speaking, such matters must never be downplayed.
I am sure there will be an investigation, but in the meantime, FIDE clearly feels it appropriate to apply a 60-day temporary suspension in this case. Such matters must never be downplayed indeed, like you appear to be downplaying the incident last year by describing it as a "push".
@i-play-atomic said in #24:
> I believe this situation is a bit overexaggerated, I believe some 90-day ban should be enough for him to visit again the doctors. Remember that Shevchenko got a 1-year ban for cheating, which is much worse for the game of chess than kicking somebody. I believe this incident is more for the police, not for FIDE.
Based on what, exactly? Of course cheating is bad for the game, but women not feeling safe at tournaments generally because of incidents like this, and many other recently documented cases (Ramirez, Gareyev, Strebkovs) is catastrophic for women's chess.
Re: the incident being for the police, there is nothing to stop police involvement in parallel with the chess organisations own action, like US Chess and FIDE applying their own sanctions to help to safeguard player safety at events, and to penalise players who do not follow the [USCF Code of Ethics and the FIDE Ethics and Disciplinary Code] at events.
@QueenRosieMary said in #28:
> According to eyewitnesses, there was a deliberate and "well-prepared punch" from behind, which connected with her back. She didn't even see it coming, it was not some accidental bump or shove which was speculated about at the time.
>
> x.com/LevAronian/status/1847014253477212247
>
> The police were called and he was arrested and charged with 4th degree battery. He was expelled from the championship and banned from the St Louis Chess Club, and his US Chess membership suspended for a year.
>
> How does writing an essay and making an apology seem appropriate for this?
>
>
>
> Many here would disagree, whilst of course any inappropriate communications on lichess are not acceptable, I think it is a stretch to say it is worse than a man physically punching a woman after losing a game.
>
>
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> and how does this help with player safety?
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>
>
> yes there were witnesses and there was a video which has quite rightly not been made public. from any witness accounts I have seen, it was not a push it was a punch.
>
>
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> I am sure there will be an investigation, but in the meantime, FIDE clearly feels it appropriate to apply a 60-day temporary suspension in this case. Such matters must never be downplayed indeed, like you appear to be downplaying the incident last year by describing it as a "push".
In retrospect, my wording about the situation wasn’t precise. My intention was to highlight nuances, not to downplay physical violence. Of course, any physical assault must be taken seriously, and I support a thorough investigation. It seems my comparison with an online incident didn’t come across the way I had intended.
Of course, safety is important. My comment wasn’t meant to question that, but to express doubt about the proportionality of sanctions. I see now that this distinction should be pointed out.