I disagree with the sentiment that because it's the internet we have to tolerate intolerance, rudeness or even worse behavior. As some seem to express here.
imo:
Internet communication should have rules and be maybe even be a bit more formal and friendly than offline just because everyone here is a stranger.
No one asked so I have to, what did the guy you reported say @EmPheroR ?
I'm not asking you to copy verbatim (even if I wouldn't mind) but in the general sense, what was it? An insult? Some provocation after a game?
I can't really judge without a better context, I can't agree it isn't "safe" here. It's just internet and many forums are way harsher, actually I would say on all the forums I ever participated in, this is probably one with the most qualitative posts.
Chess.com forums are basically dead and mostly for kids, Reddit has its moment but sometimes it's way too restrictive since some mods have extremely trigger easy, can ban anything under the sun. Here there is just the 'public shaming' rule which honestly feel ludicrous (it only makes sense when the user identify itself somehow otherwise it's just an anonymous account with games), but it's whatever apart that I haven't noticed any issue.
Just my experience though.
@Cedur216 said in #29:
> That means: Evil users can run wild without consequences.
Like expressing solidarity with a state that is currently committing genocide and apartheid in their profile? Sounds quite evil to me...
@HommeSaoul said in #32:
> No one asked so I have to, what did the guy you reported say @EmPheroR ?
>
> I'm not asking you to copy verbatim (even if I wouldn't mind) but in the general sense, what was it? An insult? Some provocation after a game?
>
> I can't really judge without a better context, I can't agree it isn't "safe" here. It's just internet and many forums are way harsher, actually I would say on all the forums I ever participated in, this is probably one with the most qualitative posts.
>
> Chess.com forums are basically dead and mostly for kids, Reddit has its moment but sometimes it's way too restrictive since some mods have extremely trigger easy, can ban anything under the sun. Here there is just the 'public shaming' rule which honestly feel ludicrous (it only makes sense when the user identify itself somehow otherwise it's just an anonymous account with games), but it's whatever apart that I haven't noticed any issue.
> Just my experience though.
I’d rather not share the exact words. My goal isn’t to focus on the details of what was said but to make it clear that an insult did occur, and I believe action needs to be taken to address such behavior. Repeating the insult might just perpetuate the negativity, and I’d prefer to keep this conversation focused on improving our community environment.
I’ve also seen suggestions to turn off chat or ignore insults since ‘it’s just the internet,’. While I understand the idea of limiting exposure, I don’t think turning off chat or dismissing insults as inevitable is the best solution. This site is a shared space, and allowing disrespectful behavior to go unchecked can make it unwelcoming for everyone
i mean the goal should be a positive and inclusive space for everyone, but the request to basically scrub all negativity is just not reasonable... it has to be a feasible solution for the mods so from their pov, are they going to police every single user, are they going to start use ai to help crack down on any and all negativity, what could be some repercussions this can lead to down the line, not saying this is a right or wrong, but seems like this is the way we are headed...
What ARE people actually proposing? I'd love it if everyone was friendly and polite online, just like I'd love it if everyone was friendly and polite in real life. But that is an unreasonable request.
When someone said "Welcome to the internet", they could easily have just said "that's life". I'm pretty sure it wasn't a statement to condone bad behaviour.
Social etiquette keeps a check on things in real life to a degree and people who violate these codes face consequences. Lichess TOS is the rule book here and if people violate these, they face consequences. You can only report and then move on. You are going to be perpetually unhappy online and in life if you expect every decision to go your way!
Lichess cannot police everyone's language. Even if they could, offence/disrespect is a subjective matter. Who decides what is offensive/insulting? Who decides what is permissible? If you report someone and nothing is done, would you accept that the moderators didn't feel a need to take action? Can you expect every moderator decision to please the reporter? Imagine how many people are reported each day for small slights.
Please; let me know what is actually being proposed as a viable solution? What do you think would work?
@betternever said in #37:
> What ARE people actually proposing? I'd love it if everyone was friendly and polite online, just like I'd love it if everyone was friendly and polite in real life. But that is an unreasonable request.
>
> Social etiquette keeps a check on things in real life to a degree and people who violate these codes face consequences. Lichess TOS is the rule book here and if people violate these, they face consequences. You can only report and then move on. You are going to be perpetually unhappy online and in life if you expect every decision to go your way!
>
> Lichess cannot police everyone's language. Even if they could, offence/disrespect is a subjective matter. Who decides what is offensive/insulting? Who decides what is permissible? If you report someone and nothing is done, would you accept that the moderators didn't feel a need to take action? Can you expect every moderator decision to please the reporter? Imagine how many people are reported each day for small slights.
>
> Please; let me know what is actually being proposed as a viable solution? What do you think would work?
You seem speak with authority. How do you know that Lichess is enforcing its terms of service? From my experience, there are mods and admins that ignore the Lichess Terms of Service, especially in regards to racism. But you speak as though as you are part of the content moderation team. I didn't see you as a mod.
Proposed solution:
1. Create training for mods with regards to racism, sexism, and trolling and what the Terms of Service prohibit.
2. Recruit and retain more mods. There are not enough mods for either communication moderation or cheat detection.
I speak as a user who has been here many years. Nothing more. I've seen a lot of nonsense in the forums. Things I disagree with and people being nasty, but I've reported very few people as they are just words. I can look away. I can block the user if I want, I can ignore the comment and move on. I'm not naive enough to think I can stop disagreeable people from posting stuff on the internet.
I've no idea how well Lichess are enforcing their terms of service. If anything, it annoys me more when they start deleting posts and closing threads when they have decided enough is enough. Sometimes the discussion is getting interesting!
You say that racism is systemic here and that is a bold claim. Do you have any evidence for this?
Your proposals involve time and money. Lichess is a free service comprising of volunteers. Also, maybe not everyone believes that the mods need re-training? If racism, sexism is a systemic problem here, I have not seen it. Trolling? Welcome to the internet!
See post 24 in this thread.
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