@petri999 "I really wonder this sort of hate attitude some.
chess.com is just fine site."
No it's not "just fine".
I explained at least 4-5 different practical problems with cheatcom. Scroll up and read slowly.
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"And as most things in this worl is being run as business."
So is sex-trafficking, which is illegal, unless you own a business and can buy your own (in)justice.
There. That's 2 very clear examples of very clear problems with "business".
You are saying nothing that doesn't further help my case and illustrate why cheatcom is NOT "just fine".
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"Yes premium membership costs, so what?"
I hope that you come back in another life as a poor kid, that loves chess, that's very good at chess, that could have made a career of chess, but for the fact that you can't afford chesscom.
I hope that you come back in another world where Lichess couldn't survive the amount of people that had a "take it or leave it" attitude towards Lichess.
A world where as good as your natural talent is, others with lesser skills than you can easily surpass your rating in many different kinds of ways, thanks to the fact that they can pay for access to information, while you can not.
I guess people really don't understand, at all, what Lichess has endeavoured to do for the world of chess, much less why it's important and respect-worthy.
I'm not sure exactly when it happened, but it's as if the chess world has been infiltrated and inundated with the dense and the dunce.
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"Master level playaer who produce the videos articles, traning excercises do not do those without being paid."
That's right. The Masters are there ONLY because they are being paid to endorse that piece of crap site.
On top of that, cheatcom is the first thing on your search engine because whoever named it was competent, and because they have plenty of traffic.
Between these two factors, they feign legitimacy while dealing underhandedly with the chess world.
Effectively, they invested in looking "official" and legitimate, until the numbers themselves appeared to prove their legitimacy.
I found some of the earlier comments to be extremely insightful, and I'm not at all surprised that when we handicap for market manipulation, and all of the corporate tactics that cheatcom has invested in in order to fake themselves as being the "official gold standard", Lichess is WAY ahead of cheatcom.
Thanks to the posters that made all of that information available. I'm not at all surprised by any of it,.
Look:
-They put a price tag on a chess resource that was made available for free by Lichess.
-They ripped off every idea that they could from Lichess.
-Their anti-cheat is completely garbage. Non-cheaters are banned while cheaters stick around for years and years.
-They have always proved a "just enough" attitude instead of the "way above and way beyond" attitude that Lichess has proven.
What's commendable about any of this?
What's it say about people who find any of this nonsense commendable?
Why should the chess world go anywhere near that piece of crap site, when someone has taken the time to ensure that we can have better for free?
They want to limit access to studies and tools, and I find this practice to be in poor taste.
Like I said, BUT FOR LICHESS, cheatcom would be making an even bigger killing by withholding information from hardcore chess fans who want nothing more than to learn all that they can about the game.
"Wanna learn more and do better and have better tools made available? Give us money!" - Cheatcom
"Let's all run over there and support them!" - The Dense and The Dunce
I don't know how many of the millions that frequent that pile of crap site there are, where if they would have known about the free unlimited engine and studies and everything else at Lichess, would have stuck with chess and given it a serious try, instead of just giving it up and moving on, never having had learned of Lichess.
In my view, even one person is one too many.
So in cheatcom's quest for money, the chess world is getting a raw deal.
People are entering and leaving the chess world without having had heard of Lichess, because chesscom has invested in x100 exposure.
You can argue, "Well Lichess could invest like that too." but then you're saying, "Lichess can do what's best for Lichess just like cheatcom is, instead of doing what's best for the chess world."
And - This - Is - My - Point.
What kind of a person, much less "chessplayer", would advocate and support what makes someone else money, over what is clearly the best thing for the internet chess community?
"The best chess resource on the planet, ad-free, cheat-free, for-free. You're welcome chess world." - Lichess
"Thank You." - Chess World.
I'm not hearing that "thank you" as much as I should be.
I take strong contention with this fact.
I will not leave my square.
You are dead wrong if your attitude towards Lichess is "I could take it or leave it" or "Cheatcom and Lichess are the same. It's just a matter of personal preference. There is no bigger picture worth looking at here. Me me me me me me me me."
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"So from their point of view
chess.com creates a sales channel for their expertise. What wrong with that?"
They've spent money to look like they're the gold standard.
They do just enough half the time, and steal Lichess' features the other half of the time.
Thanks to their efforts in cornering the market, people will not know of Lichess.
chesscom will be the first thing that they see.
They'll click it, get frustrated with the lack of access and the Lichess rejects in that community, and quit chess altogether.
If only they had clicked on Lichess first!
Thanks to cheatcom pursuing the most efficient business model, chess players, who don't know any better, will give Lichess an uphill battle.
Helping people is hard enough.
Having to fight the same people that you're trying to help is highly annoying and humiliating.
Only terrible people would understand the mechanics and politics at play, and still opt to frequent cheatcom.
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"Also there is abosultely need to even pay for it. You can play free as much as you want. As for playing I really dont see much difference."
Oh, you mean that interface that went from looking like total crap to looking something like Lichess?
I can list several features that they've flat out stolen from Lichess, only so that they can sell it back to the chess community, including a big one that I don't want to name.
What kinds of people support this kind of predatory corporate sabotage?
I always wondered why planned obsolescence was allowed to exist.
Now I have my answer.
Fricken lemmings...they throw themselves off a cliff with no regard to the stench that their rotting corpses will leave behind.
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"And if they were total crap they would have died away long ago. thats how market economy works."
That would be true...unless there was a whole pile of unintelligent, myopic, near-sighted, dullard, dizzy, bozos, that don't know what's best for themselves, who know nothing more than that they like shiny things, and drone through life in a confused daze where all manner of meaning, and cause and effect, have to yield to what must be a kind of 'mental-buzzing' that takes the place of things like lucid and logical thought, common sense, and good consideration.
According to your logic, meth and cocaine must not be total crap.
Cigarettes are good for you as well. Everything works better when you have to watch your family members struggle with failed attempts at rehab, or when people have to periodically spend a few months visiting their loved ones as they breathe their last breaths through tubes.
The fact that there is a market for something TOTALLY means that it's a good thing. It can't simply be explained by stupid people, making stupid, near-sighted, self-absorbed, selfish, asinine, inane, and idiotic choices. No. It couldn't be that at all.
Look. Provided that there are enough dullards that can't tell their hand from their foot, they could absolutely have a total crap site, founded with total crap intent, by crap people, made to look "official" through totally crappy and fake means, where they appeal to a wide swath of silly people that don't know what's best for themselves.
"I can choose for myself, and I choose planned obsolescence for generations to come!" - The Myopic Dingbat
There is a reason that we're still getting calls about how our computers have viruses and how we need to connect to a computer somewhere in India...it's because the scam works. It's because there are enough suckers to allow it to continue.
Yes. I just compared those jokers at cheatcom to an Indian call center.
Yes. I just compared chess players that know of both Lichess and cheatcom, but still frequent cheatcom, as the gullible simpletons that actually connect and allow remote access.
According to your logic, there are a bunch of people, as we speak, being paid millions of dollars to help royalty unlock funds.
According to your logic, every computer in North America has viruses that can be helped from the Microsoft Tech Support Division stationed out of India.
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"If you like one it does mean you have hate the another"
First off, I don't like cheatcom at all. It's a piece of crap.
But "hate" isn't the operative point I'm making.
The point I'm making is that the chess world is supposed to understand what side their bread is buttered on, and move themselves accordingly.
The point I'm making is that the chess world will either make life EASY for Lichess and what they've set out to do from day 1, or the chess world will give them an uphill battle.
You will do one, or you will do the other.
You can't do both.
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After what he and his team have provided the chess world, the idea that Thibault would ever have to worry about wait times on his site, regardless of rating, is embarrassing to me.
Lichess doesn't just deserve better than what it's getting from the chess world...it deserves the chess world's BEST, because that's obviously what Lichess has been giving from the jump.
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The ONLY thing that Lichess members should be doing over there with the bad guys...
...is making casual comments to their opponents about, "Have you heard of Lichess? It's actually not bad. I thought it wouldn't be great because it's completely free, but it's actually better than cheatcom. I've been over there for a week or so, and I don't think I've ran into ANY cheaters at all. I'm thinking about making a switch."
Aside from that...
Play at Lichess if you know what's good for you.
Play at cheatcom if you go through life in a dizzy and oblivious fog of confusion.
The idea that chess players, worldwide, wouldn't completely reward Lichess for their efforts, and instinctively punish cheatcom for trying to detract from Lichess, is absolutely out of order.
You'd think that chess players would know better.
