lichess.org

Takeback doesn't work correctly

Please fix. Doesn't take back the move which is requested taken back. Fix the platform.

I'm with mmmchess here-- it should unilaterally grant the takeback.

Just kidding.

Wait... what?
Am I misunderstanding something, or does this mmmchess person actually think that you should be able to just take back a move without your opponents permission?
A forced take-back?
Lol, that would be hilarious!

  I believe he’s referring to a problem I noted sometime ago, which is that takebacks, once accepted, don’t always apply to the last move played _by the person requesting_ the takeback. That is: if your opponent moves in the interim, when he accepts your request it will just undo his own last move, not yours — which is pointless. Often, he then repeats the same move — while you’re still waiting for yours to be taken back. When naturally, the whole point of requesting that takeback was to undo _your_ move, not give your opponent a second chance to refute it. In such cases, his “acceptance” of your request is a mere mockery. ;(
  There is all the difference in the world between taking back the requester’s last move and taking back _the_ last move played, and this site ought to be coded intelligently enough to discern that difference without the need to request _two_ takebacks in order to undo one move. I think, in such cases (where the opponent moves before accepting), takebacks should apply to whole turns (i.e., for both players), not just the last move played. At the very least, his moving should decline your request, the same way moving after a draw offer declines it. After all, it makes no sense for such a request to still stand if it would no longer apply to the same move as when it was initially made. What possible utility is there in a perpetual request, when its function changes with each subsequent move? It’s not really the same takeback being requested anymore; ergo, this is a bug in the site architecture.
  Seriously: Can you think of even one good reason to retain the current functionality of this feature? Is there any conceivable scenario where you would actually request that your opponent take back _his_ move, but not yours? (“I don’t like your last move; take it back!”) Is it even appropriate to make such a gesture, unless you are his tutor? And what if his move was a good one (after your blunder), isn’t that request then insulting? I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the Takeback button is used in precisely this manner by some people; i.e., purely to annoy their opponents. I once had a guy spam +15 seconds to me before rage quitting, although I already had more time than he did. If people can use that button in that way, then they can use the (current) Takeback button in a similar way — i.e., purely to mock their opponents. (Whereas, if it always applied specifically to the requester’s last move at the time it was pressed, they could only possibly embarrass themselves by such behavior.)
  I noted all of these things several months ago in a different thread (where it was admittedly off topic). But now that someone else has brought this up in its own thread, I hope you will give these questions & suggestions the attention & consideration they deserve, and seriously contemplate revamping the functionality of takebacks on this site. I contend that the current implementation of this feature makes absolutely zero sense, any way you slice it; and I will happily debate this point, at great length and in painstaking detail, with anyone who cares to make the contrary case. (Rest assured, the above is a mere summary of my arguments.) *cracks knuckles*
  PS: I hope I don’t sound too harsh. This is, IMHO, one of the very few serious flaws in this otherwise great chess platform; and as I say, I’ve complained about it before, to no avail. ;(

Thank you pawnedge.
That makes a lot more sense than a forced takeback. lol.
The thought and time you put in to typing out that comment...
I agree with what youre saying, and it makes a lot of sense.
Im not too familiar with takebacks, because I never request them, because I only play rated, and I almost always never accept an opponents takeback request.
Only if its a super obvious misclick, like they move their queen to the square right next to your queen instead of taking it, but even then if its bullet... sometimes there is no mercy...... For the most part; you have to accept and take responsibility for your mistakes and live with the loss.
Takebacks shouldnt even really be a thing in rated...

№ 6,

  I agree. These days, I never request takebacks, and hardly ever grant them. (Only in specific cases, like the one you mention.) My familiarity with this issue stems from my earliest days of playing, and even then chiefly from others’ requests — which it initially confused me I was unable to grant, despite trying multiple times. (lol.) Although I have occasionally made misstaps on my phone, and played on in spite of it. Once I played 1.e3 when I meant to play e4 — I think I missed by just one pixel. Another time I blundered my queen much like in your example, and was denied my TB request. In both cases, I believe I won anyway. . . . Sometimes, these things are merely cosmetic. *shrug*
  But while missclicks can’t be prevented on the server side, the site might at least do a better job of translating intentionality when one is attempting to correct for them after the fact. I don’t think this is an example of what you might call “smartmoving”; it is only less-dumb unmoving. ;)

Here's a thought.

Let's set "misclicks" aside. Move confirmation should be enough-- I used to have misclicks, until this feature was pointed out to me.

The real concept with takebacks is, how sociable is this for you? How much does the number on a website mean? If you're here to train and make friends / rivals of your opponents, granting an occasional takeback is fine so as not to spoil the game. (However, I usually expect at least a draw if the recipient turns the game around.)

Also, how strong do you feel your game is? I see Masters (like Esserman) granting takebacks habitually, because, who cares? You can probably still win having given one takeback, if you're good enough. It's more of an "Alpha" move to win having given takebacks, or offered draws, if you want to think of it that way. My own policy is to give one takeback per game, with the only condition being the aforementioned grace to agree to a draw if the evaluation shifts later on.

Having said all that... there is definitely that issue of "wait, now we need a second takeback... what the... hey, c'mon, you have to... hit it again... ah nevermind."

Qveen

Your Maieſtie,

  It so happens, in the same place where I complained about takebacks before, I also complained about the Move Confirmation feature. I tried it once, and absolutely hated it. As I recall, it just beeps at you every turn, and forces you to move your cursor to the far side of the screen to click a tiny checkbox near the other buttons, which you could even more easily missclick than the square in question, and offer a draw by mistake (for example).
  I propose that Move Confirmation should instead place a grayed-out or translucent piece on the square you clicked, until you click that same square a second time; or if you click anywhere else, the faint piece disappears, cancelling the move. And with no sound effect! (Till the move is confirmed, whereupon it can play the normal moving or capturing sound.)
  Equally importantly, Move Confirmation should be a toggleable button, right beside the Takeback button, and not a feature buried deep in the Preferences menu. What if I’m in time pressure? I should be able to toggle it off on the fly.
  Just my two cents. I am, of course, more open to others’ suggestions for this one. ^_^

Yeah, the sound would annoy me. I play on desktop and mobile, and don't have any sound associated with move confirmation.

Not sure why that's happening for you.

As for time pressure, that's easy. Don't play Blitz! ;) I personally hate losing or winning via flag.

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