I think I've Figured it out - in preferences I had takeback set to never. I've now allowed it in casual games so he can try it again I guess.
№ 19,
If your opponent desires a takeback, he will ask for one. If he doesn’t, and you wish to offer him one anyway, just use the chatbox. Tell him you’ll allow one, if he wants it. But let him click that button for himself. Anything else is presumptuous and improper, since it’s not your place to take back his move for him, nor is it clear that button is meant to be used this way. (I believe it’s a bug.) But even if it were clearly marked (i.e., “give a takeback” vs. “request a takeback” — perhaps with two separate buttons), it could easily be abused. If more people knew they could give _you_ takebacks, some of them would do this all the time when you are winning. (“Oh, you can find a faster mate than that!”) This would be especially rude in time pressure; but I think it’s rude, anyway, to poopoo someone else’s move. It’s just not your place, as I say. Not unless you are his tutor, or he has asked you for advice; or you have first offered him advice, which was well received, perhaps on account of a large rating gap between you, and an uncommon degree of humility on his part. (Personally, I would decline any advice till after the game. If you began “advising” me during our game, I would close the chat.)
And on the contrary, what’s “unreasonable” is the assumption that your gesture will be interpreted correctly by him. If you don’t talk to him first, how is he to know you meant his move and not your own last move? You give the example of a mouseslip while castling, but what if his blunder is less obvious? He may not even realize he has blundered. Or maybe he’s trying to play without castling, in order to test that variant (and forgot to tell you, or doesn’t speak English), or on a dare from his friend; or maybe he doesn’t know about en passant, or what have you. Or maybe you’re mistaken, because you forgot the king / pawn had already moved / captured; or maybe it was actually a brilliant move, and you just can’t see how. This is why it’s not your place to instruct your opponents, save through the example of your own moves. Let him learn the hard way. Talk about the game with him afterwards, if he’s interested. (In general, talking is the best way to sort these things out. Not clicking buttons on his behalf, as if he’s too lazy to do that himself.)
The fellow who started that other thread I linked to says he frequently offers others takebacks, yet his opponents never understand that he isn’t asking for one himself. Clearly then, clicking the button on someone else’s behalf rarely works the way you intended, anyway. To my mind, this just means you shouldn’t be doing it; you should stick to the chatbox. Takebacks simply aren’t meant to work that way, in the first place; it’s a bug. You can request them, but you shouldn’t be offering them.
I also think that, if he has moved since you have, being forced to request two takebacks to undo your move is silly. I think whoever requests the takeback, if it is granted, should have _his own_ last move undone, even when this means undoing the whole turn (i.e., both players’ moves). This is yet another reason only the person concerned should ever click that button.
Finally, if someone else offered me a takeback I personally would be embarrassed, if not offended. So what you intend magnanimously might well be seen as mockery. Perhaps not by most people, but I can gaurantee by some, since that is my own feeling on the matter. *shrug* Something to bear in mind.
For all these reasons, I think there should only be one type of takeback on this site: namely the request, as opposed to the offer. If it were no longer possible for you to offer others takebacks (save of course via the chatbox), this would avoid confusion for everyone involved, and likewise prevent abuse. I also propose that, instead of saying, “Takeback request sent,” it should say (e.g.), “15. White requests a takeback.” This way it’s always clear after the fact who asked, and on what turn. That ought to stop people from abusing this feature, supposedly on others’ behalves. (Currently, I could claim in the chatbox a week later that my opponent had requested the TB; and as there are no time stamps, and only a vague “Takeback declined” statement, no one would have any cause to doubt me.)
In sum: Takeback offers, however well intended, are frequently misunderstood, and may even be seen as condescending; and the current implementation of this feature (or should I say flaw?) causes redundant requests to be necessary in many instances, plus leaves only a vague record after the fact. All of these things cause needless confusion (see the OP’s post, or that other thread I linked to before). I am thus firmly of the opinion that there should only be one type of takeback, not two; and that it should always be user specific (i.e., the last move made by the person who pressed the button, at the time he pressed it), and even record the requester’s name / move number in the chat log.
But I believe I have said all of this before. ^_^;; Was there something else you wished to know?
If your opponent desires a takeback, he will ask for one. If he doesn’t, and you wish to offer him one anyway, just use the chatbox. Tell him you’ll allow one, if he wants it. But let him click that button for himself. Anything else is presumptuous and improper, since it’s not your place to take back his move for him, nor is it clear that button is meant to be used this way. (I believe it’s a bug.) But even if it were clearly marked (i.e., “give a takeback” vs. “request a takeback” — perhaps with two separate buttons), it could easily be abused. If more people knew they could give _you_ takebacks, some of them would do this all the time when you are winning. (“Oh, you can find a faster mate than that!”) This would be especially rude in time pressure; but I think it’s rude, anyway, to poopoo someone else’s move. It’s just not your place, as I say. Not unless you are his tutor, or he has asked you for advice; or you have first offered him advice, which was well received, perhaps on account of a large rating gap between you, and an uncommon degree of humility on his part. (Personally, I would decline any advice till after the game. If you began “advising” me during our game, I would close the chat.)
And on the contrary, what’s “unreasonable” is the assumption that your gesture will be interpreted correctly by him. If you don’t talk to him first, how is he to know you meant his move and not your own last move? You give the example of a mouseslip while castling, but what if his blunder is less obvious? He may not even realize he has blundered. Or maybe he’s trying to play without castling, in order to test that variant (and forgot to tell you, or doesn’t speak English), or on a dare from his friend; or maybe he doesn’t know about en passant, or what have you. Or maybe you’re mistaken, because you forgot the king / pawn had already moved / captured; or maybe it was actually a brilliant move, and you just can’t see how. This is why it’s not your place to instruct your opponents, save through the example of your own moves. Let him learn the hard way. Talk about the game with him afterwards, if he’s interested. (In general, talking is the best way to sort these things out. Not clicking buttons on his behalf, as if he’s too lazy to do that himself.)
The fellow who started that other thread I linked to says he frequently offers others takebacks, yet his opponents never understand that he isn’t asking for one himself. Clearly then, clicking the button on someone else’s behalf rarely works the way you intended, anyway. To my mind, this just means you shouldn’t be doing it; you should stick to the chatbox. Takebacks simply aren’t meant to work that way, in the first place; it’s a bug. You can request them, but you shouldn’t be offering them.
I also think that, if he has moved since you have, being forced to request two takebacks to undo your move is silly. I think whoever requests the takeback, if it is granted, should have _his own_ last move undone, even when this means undoing the whole turn (i.e., both players’ moves). This is yet another reason only the person concerned should ever click that button.
Finally, if someone else offered me a takeback I personally would be embarrassed, if not offended. So what you intend magnanimously might well be seen as mockery. Perhaps not by most people, but I can gaurantee by some, since that is my own feeling on the matter. *shrug* Something to bear in mind.
For all these reasons, I think there should only be one type of takeback on this site: namely the request, as opposed to the offer. If it were no longer possible for you to offer others takebacks (save of course via the chatbox), this would avoid confusion for everyone involved, and likewise prevent abuse. I also propose that, instead of saying, “Takeback request sent,” it should say (e.g.), “15. White requests a takeback.” This way it’s always clear after the fact who asked, and on what turn. That ought to stop people from abusing this feature, supposedly on others’ behalves. (Currently, I could claim in the chatbox a week later that my opponent had requested the TB; and as there are no time stamps, and only a vague “Takeback declined” statement, no one would have any cause to doubt me.)
In sum: Takeback offers, however well intended, are frequently misunderstood, and may even be seen as condescending; and the current implementation of this feature (or should I say flaw?) causes redundant requests to be necessary in many instances, plus leaves only a vague record after the fact. All of these things cause needless confusion (see the OP’s post, or that other thread I linked to before). I am thus firmly of the opinion that there should only be one type of takeback, not two; and that it should always be user specific (i.e., the last move made by the person who pressed the button, at the time he pressed it), and even record the requester’s name / move number in the chat log.
But I believe I have said all of this before. ^_^;; Was there something else you wished to know?
Yeah it was the settings that denied the initial takeback request. After I changed the preferences / settings we managed to go back so that he didn't lose his queen through a misclick and we had a decent game.
Pawnedge that's one heck of a comprehensive response, thanks.
Pawnedge that's one heck of a comprehensive response, thanks.
№ 23,
I didn’t mean to overlook your post; you seemed to have answered your own question (which was tangential in any case), hence I was only replying to № 19.
Well after all, at the start of this thread, I did promise to meet dissension with “great length and painstaking detail.” ;) You are welcome; I hope others may likewise find it a salient contribution to this important discussion.
Cheers.
I didn’t mean to overlook your post; you seemed to have answered your own question (which was tangential in any case), hence I was only replying to № 19.
Well after all, at the start of this thread, I did promise to meet dissension with “great length and painstaking detail.” ;) You are welcome; I hope others may likewise find it a salient contribution to this important discussion.
Cheers.
Of my fellow club member said to me i need to stop being gentle with offering takebacks after opponent blunder. I usually do this to be nice.
Offering takeback after queen or rook blunder is fine atleast OTB at my local club where we play informally most of the time.
Offering takeback after queen or rook blunder is fine atleast OTB at my local club where we play informally most of the time.
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