When will Chess960 replace chess? • page 2/4 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

@Gavatar12 Correct. It is an illusion to believe that opening knowledge would be less decisive if chess 960 became standard.

To have an advantage over your opponent, you do not need to know every opening till move #15. You only need to know more than your opponent. A professional chess 960 player would put years and years in the 960 different starting positions and would know all of them till move #12. Probably same amount of memory needed, and a huge advantage, forcing all others to do the same.

Also, the professionals would quickly find ways to cluster the openings and derive general rules.

@Gavatar12 Correct. It is an illusion to believe that opening knowledge would be less decisive if chess 960 became standard. To have an advantage over your opponent, you do not need to know every opening till move #15. You only need to know more than your opponent. A professional chess 960 player would put years and years in the 960 different starting positions and would know all of them till move #12. Probably same amount of memory needed, and a huge advantage, forcing all others to do the same. Also, the professionals would quickly find ways to cluster the openings and derive general rules.

tpr

#12

It would be good if lichess would hold chess960 tournaments, preferably with increment. Every hour there is crazyhouse, atomic, antichess. No chess960.

The_Human_Paradox

#13

@sheckley666 I certainly don't think humans have so great memories that they can memorize the theory of 960 different position, especially since many of them will have subtle differences which can be easily forgotten ("Hey in the starting position I just memorized was my Rook on c1 and the Knight on d1 or was it the other way round?!")

Gavatar12

#14

@The_Human_Paradox Actually there are memory techniques which would make it possible. Some people can memorize 50 decks of cards in a limited amount of time. And moreover since chess is a visual game, it is much more easier to memorize lines on it. Experience would be key on memorization but especially with engines, finding right lines and memorizing them are totally possible. It can make things much more elitist though. 1-2 people dominating the world while the rest is far behind.

Gavatar12 edited

#15

Additionally, I would guess that systems would be much more popular than rest of the opening theory, which would make the necessary amount memorization drastically lower.

jesgluckner

#16

#14
@Gavatar12
It is true super grand masters do have an inhuman capability in terms of learning and memorizing, but not one of them has even mastered standard chess yet, as it simply is not possible. Everyone looses from time to time and 90% of games are decided outside of theory teritory. The problem is that, even thought the players are out of theory, the resulting position from following the theory, most of the time gives no one a clear chance at winning either the position is equal or white is slightly better.
Now take normal theory and multiply it by 959. Simply not possible to neither know or understand every opening.

And btw. throughout history there have always been 1-2 people dominating while the rest is far behind. Morphy, Lasker-Capablanca, Alekhine, Fischer, Karpov - Kasparov, Nowadays Magnus and Caruana to some extend.

Only during the Botwinnik and post Kasparov pre Magnus times there was not really one or two people throning above everyone else.

#14 @Gavatar12 It is true super grand masters do have an inhuman capability in terms of learning and memorizing, but not one of them has even mastered standard chess yet, as it simply is not possible. Everyone looses from time to time and 90% of games are decided outside of theory teritory. The problem is that, even thought the players are out of theory, the resulting position from following the theory, most of the time gives no one a clear chance at winning either the position is equal or white is slightly better. Now take normal theory and multiply it by 959. Simply not possible to neither know or understand every opening. And btw. throughout history there have always been 1-2 people dominating while the rest is far behind. Morphy, Lasker-Capablanca, Alekhine, Fischer, Karpov - Kasparov, Nowadays Magnus and Caruana to some extend. Only during the Botwinnik and post Kasparov pre Magnus times there was not really one or two people throning above everyone else.

phoenixshade

#17

Question: When will Chess960 replace chess?

Answer: Never.

/thread

Question: When will Chess960 replace chess? Answer: Never. /thread

Never

@jesgluckner I am not claiming that they will memorize every possible line but I think they will develop solid systems for each and every combination of at least their own pieces. I totally agree on the rest of your comment. And also mind that all of these players who rose above everyone else did it after the opening phase. Probably because it is extremely hard to memorize every line in chess 960, the one above everyone else will be decided by memorization, not middle game or end game when it comes to becoming a legend.

The_Human_Paradox

#20

@Gavatar12 Remembering the theory of 960 different positions even up to 10 moves is nearly impossible. 96o positions are a lot, and considering that many positions will be quite similar to each other but not exactly same, there is a high chance of the players mixing up their moves. Unless humans will become cyborgs in the future, I don't see Chess960 opening theory being developed at all.