Should stalling be punishable? • page 3/3 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

@hatchet
Automating the process could cause trouble, but if done properly, yes, it would enchance the lichess experience greatly.

@hatchet Automating the process could cause trouble, but if done properly, yes, it would enchance the lichess experience greatly.

Sputnik_Monroe

#22

to think like a lawyer (what I'm not..).. you agreed with your opponent, that you both have a certain amount of time for the game. How to use the time the player has to decide by himself.
Sometimes you don't see you can checkmate someone.. you make a move and - oh it was acheckmate!
Sometimes you're in trouble.. you think and think and - oh I get checkmated!
We can't expect everyone to understand a position every time.

What is our next step? Put someone in prison because he spent his money for something we don't understand and never would do?

I think what we can do is:
learn how to react and "help" players with negative, disturbing behaviour and build a space of voluntarily self-control in a team.
We remind ourself to be likeable chess partners in this team and if someone isn't, we can say: this is alright and your decission but not the way we want to behave.. it does not fit to the spirit of this team.

what do you think about this?

PS:
( http://de.lichess.org/team/good-behaviour-on-lichess )

to think like a lawyer (what I'm not..).. you agreed with your opponent, that you both have a certain amount of time for the game. How to use the time the player has to decide by himself. Sometimes you don't see you can checkmate someone.. you make a move and - oh it was acheckmate! Sometimes you're in trouble.. you think and think and - oh I get checkmated! We can't expect everyone to understand a position every time. What is our next step? Put someone in prison because he spent his money for something we don't understand and never would do? I think what we can do is: learn how to react and "help" players with negative, disturbing behaviour and build a space of voluntarily self-control in a team. We remind ourself to be likeable chess partners in this team and if someone isn't, we can say: this is alright and your decission but not the way we want to behave.. it does not fit to the spirit of this team. what do you think about this? PS: ( http://de.lichess.org/team/good-behaviour-on-lichess )

Sputnik_Monroe

#23

and team mates: dont forget if you play online chess..

raise your pinky, when you move the mouse ;-)

and team mates: dont forget if you play online chess.. raise your pinky, when you move the mouse ;-)

hatchet

#24

That's why you're not a lawyer, Sputnik :P
When talking about stalling we mean the DELIBERATE act of letting the time run down in a completely won position.
I get your point that this is not easy to detect, but we could try to work out it. I'm not a programer but I'll happily introduce and work out some of my ideas in this thread and let it evaluate by both programers and other lichess members. Of course, this occurs more often in games with higher rated players, but it's still annoying.
This good behaviour team is a nice idea, but there should be more reliable alternatives, I think.

That's why you're not a lawyer, Sputnik :P When talking about stalling we mean the DELIBERATE act of letting the time run down in a completely won position. I get your point that this is not easy to detect, but we could try to work out it. I'm not a programer but I'll happily introduce and work out some of my ideas in this thread and let it evaluate by both programers and other lichess members. Of course, this occurs more often in games with higher rated players, but it's still annoying. This good behaviour team is a nice idea, but there should be more reliable alternatives, I think.

Sputnik_Monroe

#25

I think it was the chessserver "chessgate" which puts an "R" after your player name if you are a "registered" for fair play
http://www.ischach.net/sv/hints.html#9
(in german)
in my expierience on this server it worked pretty well..

I agree with you that it can feel anoying if someone stalls you.. but there ap people which don't like it if their opponents move to fast..
in my oppinion everybody has to right to use his time how he likes..
lichess has the idea of free chess.. maybe it's better if we learn to handle stalling emotional by ourself and the stalling person learn to be respectful..
even if there are good methods to detect stalling by the software.. do we need to use them?
is this our world? rules, rules, rules?
I think we should be grown up enough to be respectful in the game and to manage stress if we have a bad opponent....

I think it was the chessserver "chessgate" which puts an "R" after your player name if you are a "registered" for fair play http://www.ischach.net/sv/hints.html#9 (in german) in my expierience on this server it worked pretty well.. I agree with you that it can feel anoying if someone stalls you.. but there ap people which don't like it if their opponents move to fast.. in my oppinion everybody has to right to use his time how he likes.. lichess has the idea of free chess.. maybe it's better if we learn to handle stalling emotional by ourself and the stalling person learn to be respectful.. even if there are good methods to detect stalling by the software.. do we need to use them? is this our world? rules, rules, rules? I think we should be grown up enough to be respectful in the game and to manage stress if we have a bad opponent....

Toscani

#26

Zugzwang button: The button that will force the win, if the position is guaranteed a win.

Factor to autowin a player stalling: The button must check average speed of moves to determine if the next move was a stalling move and then search for a checkmate.

As long as there is no stalling the checkmate is not checked for a checkmate.

The winning player must pre-move to show the analyse Zugzwang button that they see the checkmate.

Then the winning player autowins.

Zugzwang button: The button that will force the win, if the position is guaranteed a win. Factor to autowin a player stalling: The button must check average speed of moves to determine if the next move was a stalling move and then search for a checkmate. As long as there is no stalling the checkmate is not checked for a checkmate. The winning player must pre-move to show the analyse Zugzwang button that they see the checkmate. Then the winning player autowins.

Sputnik_Monroe

#27

Hm.. you mean there is a checkmate in 8 moves you didn't see and your opponent is thinking about the complicated situation and you get the win for free because you pushed every move the button and in this move it worked out? :-)

I think stalling is a psychological problem for both sides..
the "attacker" and the "victim"
why solve it with rules and algorithms instead of the level were the problem is?

Hm.. you mean there is a checkmate in 8 moves you didn't see and your opponent is thinking about the complicated situation and you get the win for free because you pushed every move the button and in this move it worked out? :-) I think stalling is a psychological problem for both sides.. the "attacker" and the "victim" why solve it with rules and algorithms instead of the level were the problem is?

Toscani

#28

The winning player must pre-move all the forced moves to get the autowin. After every press of the button, you will never see the results. The analyses results of a forced checkmate is not visible. Press it all you want, it will not tell you there is a checkmate, until you show all the forced pre-moves to get to checkmate.
The only response the button could give you is "Prove it".
Don't forget that every time you press that button, you send a request to the server. Press it too often and you only cause more lag on your end.
Good luck in seeing a forced zugzwang 8 move deep.
This feature will slow down the bot users.

The winning player must pre-move all the forced moves to get the autowin. After every press of the button, you will never see the results. The analyses results of a forced checkmate is not visible. Press it all you want, it will not tell you there is a checkmate, until you show all the forced pre-moves to get to checkmate. The only response the button could give you is "Prove it". Don't forget that every time you press that button, you send a request to the server. Press it too often and you only cause more lag on your end. Good luck in seeing a forced zugzwang 8 move deep. This feature will slow down the bot users.

Sputnik_Monroe

#29

In my experience most stalled games are after loosing a piece, especially a queen.. chances to premove are probably very low.

But I like the way you think.

In my experience most stalled games are after loosing a piece, especially a queen.. chances to premove are probably very low. But I like the way you think.