- Blind mode tutorial
lichess.org
Donate

How To Catch a Cheater

#21

@midnightmusicnetwork
Your effort to help is appriciated, but as someone has explained cheating behavior is way more complex than you think and your solution doesn't consider many many factor. I suggest you to deeply study the matter if you are intereste. And you will understand at that point

@midnightmusicnetwork Your effort to help is appriciated, but as someone has explained cheating behavior is way more complex than you think and your solution doesn't consider many many factor. I suggest you to deeply study the matter if you are intereste. And you will understand at that point
#22

@toxic_internet said in #20:

Cheating has exploded in the last 60-90 days or so. I've been playing online for almost 25 years and it has always been there, but the recent increase in cheating at online chess is a sight to behold.

As one weak player to another, what makes you so sure about all this cheating? I honestly can't say I've noticed it. The first I knew about someone cheating against me was when I got a rating refund. Admittedly I did feel a little crushed getting mated in 16 moves but I put it down to having a bad day.

@toxic_internet said in #20: > Cheating has exploded in the last 60-90 days or so. I've been playing online for almost 25 years and it has always been there, but the recent increase in cheating at online chess is a sight to behold. As one weak player to another, what makes you so sure about all this cheating? I honestly can't say I've noticed it. The first I knew about someone cheating against me was when I got a rating refund. Admittedly I did feel a little crushed getting mated in 16 moves but I put it down to having a bad day.
#23

@InModeration said in #22:

As one weak player to another, what makes you so sure about all this cheating? I honestly can't say I've noticed it. The first I knew about someone cheating against me was when I got a rating refund. Admittedly I did feel a little crushed getting mated in 16 moves but I put it down to having a bad day.

I haven't noticed it either, here or on chess.com.

Face it, anyone can have a bad day, or run into a prepared/trappy line that results in a quick loss. I've won a couple of quick games recently against much higher rated opponents (300-600 pts) by using a particular attacking line that is easy to misplay if you're not familiar with it. It happens.

@InModeration said in #22: > As one weak player to another, what makes you so sure about all this cheating? I honestly can't say I've noticed it. The first I knew about someone cheating against me was when I got a rating refund. Admittedly I did feel a little crushed getting mated in 16 moves but I put it down to having a bad day. I haven't noticed it either, here or on chess.com. Face it, anyone can have a bad day, or run into a prepared/trappy line that results in a quick loss. I've won a couple of quick games recently against much higher rated opponents (300-600 pts) by using a particular attacking line that is easy to misplay if you're not familiar with it. It happens.
#24

It's important to maintain the integrity of online chess, and the presence of cheaters threatens that integrity. By implementing secret bots in rated games, they can catch cheaters and prevent them from ruining the experience for honest players. The use of bots would not only discourage potential cheaters from attempting to cheat, but it would also ensure that the playing field is fair for all players. It's a small price to pay to maintain the integrity of the game, and it will ultimately lead to a more enjoyable experience for all players. Additionally, the use of bots would not be intrusive or affect gameplay for honest players, so there is no downside to implementing this solution. You will not lose your rating points when you lose to them, and the likelihood of you running into one in your games is small. There should be enough to catch the cheaters, but not so many that you are playing a good portion of your games playing bots.

It is like having police officers on the highway to deter speeding. They will not catch everyone, they are not everywhere all the time, but their presence should deter speeding. You know they are there, and can get caught, and there are enough out there to catch you, but you might get away with it for a while, but you will get caught, plus this is used in addition to what is already in place.

Now to address everyone's concerns.

Concern 1: False positives and innocent players getting banned.

I understand the concern about innocent players getting banned due to false positives, this is impossible as the bot is playing stronger than any human, but not strong enough to beat full strength stockfish, komodo, leela etc. By beating the bot which should be impossible for a human to do, they will be banned instantly. For the more creative cheaters, the other anti-cheat measures in place can address that. So, the report button should not go away, it is still needed for manual review of the cleverer cheaters.

Concern 2: The cost of implementing this system.

Yeah, there will be a cost involved in developing and implementing this system. However, I believe that this cost is justified by the benefits that it will bring. Cheating has become a major problem in online chess, and it is driving away honest players. By implementing this system, they can restore confidence in online chess and attract more players to the game.

Concern 3: The complexity of cheating behavior.

I recognize that cheating behavior is complex, and that no system can catch all cheaters. However, this system will be designed to catch the most common forms of cheating. This should take the load off the moderators, and the anti-cheat algorithms, so that they can have a more focused, and reduced workload to catch cheaters. By doing so, it can create a more level playing field and discourage cheaters from engaging in this behavior.

Sure, the cheaters can keep coming up with ways to beat the system, but the idea is eventually to make it so much a waste of their time, they quit cheating, and everyone else can play chess and enjoy it.

It's important to maintain the integrity of online chess, and the presence of cheaters threatens that integrity. By implementing secret bots in rated games, they can catch cheaters and prevent them from ruining the experience for honest players. The use of bots would not only discourage potential cheaters from attempting to cheat, but it would also ensure that the playing field is fair for all players. It's a small price to pay to maintain the integrity of the game, and it will ultimately lead to a more enjoyable experience for all players. Additionally, the use of bots would not be intrusive or affect gameplay for honest players, so there is no downside to implementing this solution. You will not lose your rating points when you lose to them, and the likelihood of you running into one in your games is small. There should be enough to catch the cheaters, but not so many that you are playing a good portion of your games playing bots. It is like having police officers on the highway to deter speeding. They will not catch everyone, they are not everywhere all the time, but their presence should deter speeding. You know they are there, and can get caught, and there are enough out there to catch you, but you might get away with it for a while, but you will get caught, plus this is used in addition to what is already in place. Now to address everyone's concerns. Concern 1: False positives and innocent players getting banned. I understand the concern about innocent players getting banned due to false positives, this is impossible as the bot is playing stronger than any human, but not strong enough to beat full strength stockfish, komodo, leela etc. By beating the bot which should be impossible for a human to do, they will be banned instantly. For the more creative cheaters, the other anti-cheat measures in place can address that. So, the report button should not go away, it is still needed for manual review of the cleverer cheaters. Concern 2: The cost of implementing this system. Yeah, there will be a cost involved in developing and implementing this system. However, I believe that this cost is justified by the benefits that it will bring. Cheating has become a major problem in online chess, and it is driving away honest players. By implementing this system, they can restore confidence in online chess and attract more players to the game. Concern 3: The complexity of cheating behavior. I recognize that cheating behavior is complex, and that no system can catch all cheaters. However, this system will be designed to catch the most common forms of cheating. This should take the load off the moderators, and the anti-cheat algorithms, so that they can have a more focused, and reduced workload to catch cheaters. By doing so, it can create a more level playing field and discourage cheaters from engaging in this behavior. Sure, the cheaters can keep coming up with ways to beat the system, but the idea is eventually to make it so much a waste of their time, they quit cheating, and everyone else can play chess and enjoy it.
#25

It's important to maintain the integrity of online chess, and the presence of cheaters threatens that integrity.

Lichess does a great job at this. No more need to talk about a highly ill-considered figment (really noone's gonna spend any thought into even implementing such a bot) and turns the site into a dystopic mess

How to catch a cheater? --- Well, definitely not your way.

> It's important to maintain the integrity of online chess, and the presence of cheaters threatens that integrity. Lichess does a great job at this. No more need to talk about a highly ill-considered figment (really noone's gonna spend any thought into even implementing such a bot) and turns the site into a dystopic mess How to catch a cheater? --- Well, definitely not your way.
#26

@Cedur216 said in #25:

Lichess does a great job at this. No more need to talk about a highly ill-considered figment (really noone's gonna spend any thought into even implementing such a bot) and turns the site into a dystopic mess

How to catch a cheater? --- Well, definitely not your way.

If their way was working, then why are people still complaining about cheaters? You haven't even bothered to explain why it wouldn't work, because you know it will. People are already playing cheaters using chess engines, and losing rating points to them, why not play a bot that's sole purpose is to catch cheaters, and you don't lose any rating points? It will not turn the site into a mess, it already is a mess, it will fix the mess. You seem to think there will be billions of them, no, just 100. You will have a 1 in 1000 games chance of running into one at the peak time when the site has 100,000 games running. The 100 bots are working all the time, so the chance of running into one increases during low traffic hours, but still not enough to ruin the experience for anyone except the cheaters. The cheater will never know until it's too late which one of their opponents was the anti-cheat bot. A legitimate player loses nothing. It is worth it, and they should do it.

@Cedur216 said in #25: > Lichess does a great job at this. No more need to talk about a highly ill-considered figment (really noone's gonna spend any thought into even implementing such a bot) and turns the site into a dystopic mess > > How to catch a cheater? --- Well, definitely not your way. If their way was working, then why are people still complaining about cheaters? You haven't even bothered to explain why it wouldn't work, because you know it will. People are already playing cheaters using chess engines, and losing rating points to them, why not play a bot that's sole purpose is to catch cheaters, and you don't lose any rating points? It will not turn the site into a mess, it already is a mess, it will fix the mess. You seem to think there will be billions of them, no, just 100. You will have a 1 in 1000 games chance of running into one at the peak time when the site has 100,000 games running. The 100 bots are working all the time, so the chance of running into one increases during low traffic hours, but still not enough to ruin the experience for anyone except the cheaters. The cheater will never know until it's too late which one of their opponents was the anti-cheat bot. A legitimate player loses nothing. It is worth it, and they should do it.
#27

This would be somewhat reasonable until someone legitimately beats the bot.

This would be somewhat reasonable until someone legitimately beats the bot.
#28

The 0,0,0 and still not banned is meaningless

https://lichess.org/pBuBjk0u/white

Here I got 0,0,0 and won in 35 seconds with 95% accuracy. My opponent also had only one blunder and nothing else and over 80% accuracy.
It totally depends on the game itself and how complex it is. In cases like these you look like a computer simply because the main line of the game itself is just a very easy one.

The 0,0,0 and still not banned is meaningless https://lichess.org/pBuBjk0u/white Here I got 0,0,0 and won in 35 seconds with 95% accuracy. My opponent also had only one blunder and nothing else and over 80% accuracy. It totally depends on the game itself and how complex it is. In cases like these you look like a computer simply because the main line of the game itself is just a very easy one.
#29

@midnightmusicnetwork said in #26:

If their way was working, then why are people still complaining about cheaters?

Who's complaining? I see the same few names over and over again whining about getting beaten by cheats and losing precious rating points. They were almost certainly beaten by a genuine player. If not the cheat will be caught eventually and I suspect that it doesn't take long either.

@midnightmusicnetwork said in #26: > If their way was working, then why are people still complaining about cheaters? Who's complaining? I see the same few names over and over again whining about getting beaten by cheats and losing precious rating points. They were almost certainly beaten by a genuine player. If not the cheat will be caught eventually and I suspect that it doesn't take long either.
#30

@toxic_internet said in #20:

Cheating has exploded in the last 60-90 days or so. I've been playing online for almost 25 years and it has always been there, but the recent increase in cheating at online chess is a sight to behold.

Given that Chess.com and PlayMagnus have merged, can you be more specific about where all the cheating is happening?

@toxic_internet said in #20: > Cheating has exploded in the last 60-90 days or so. I've been playing online for almost 25 years and it has always been there, but the recent increase in cheating at online chess is a sight to behold. Given that Chess.com and PlayMagnus have merged, can you be more specific about where all the cheating is happening?

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.