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FIDE to launch investigation into Carlsen and Niemann

#41

my personal opinion, age should be taken into account, and recency.

chess.com's policy of not say anything, not even marking the account as violating fair play isn't ideal, but I can think of a few reason why they would do that.

so fide should have a condition as part of peoples titles that they need to self report if an online chess account gets quietly locked.

maybe even a requirement to notify fide of their account names. pretty much every tittled player knows the account names of every other titled player, it's not exactly a secret. sometimes a super gms plays a tournament on lichess anonymously, but it doesn't stay anonymous for long.

maybe make it a condition of playing in a tournament that their online chess accounts are disclosed and sign a disclaimer that they haven't had an account locked for fair play violations in the last 12 months.

my personal opinion, age should be taken into account, and recency. chess.com's policy of not say anything, not even marking the account as violating fair play isn't ideal, but I can think of a few reason why they would do that. so fide should have a condition as part of peoples titles that they need to self report if an online chess account gets quietly locked. maybe even a requirement to notify fide of their account names. pretty much every tittled player knows the account names of every other titled player, it's not exactly a secret. sometimes a super gms plays a tournament on lichess anonymously, but it doesn't stay anonymous for long. maybe make it a condition of playing in a tournament that their online chess accounts are disclosed and sign a disclaimer that they haven't had an account locked for fair play violations in the last 12 months.
#42

even though chess.com quietly locks titled players accounts, other titled players tend to find out.

someone playing titled tuesday every week and winning occasionally suddenly stops logging into their account is pretty noticeable.

not to mention chess.com was willing to send private email conversations to a news outlet, so I wouldn't be surprised if they talk about bans on the down low with other titled players they are friendly with, who talk about it with other titled players, who talk about it with other...

even though chess.com quietly locks titled players accounts, other titled players tend to find out. someone playing titled tuesday every week and winning occasionally suddenly stops logging into their account is pretty noticeable. not to mention chess.com was willing to send private email conversations to a news outlet, so I wouldn't be surprised if they talk about bans on the down low with other titled players they are friendly with, who talk about it with other titled players, who talk about it with other...
#43

@h2b2 said in #42:

not to mention chess.com was willing to send private email conversations to a news outlet, so I wouldn't be surprised if they talk about bans on the down low with other titled players they are friendly with, who talk about it with other titled players, who talk about it with other...

It's funny but this was pretty much my take on what happened with Carlsen, i.e. he became privy to some inside information on Niemann after his financial link up with chess.com. I thought that would explain why he was happy to play Niemann just a couple of weeks before but then pulling out of a tournament after an OTB game, making his insinuations.

However, I just watched a podcast with Fabiano Caruana and he was quite clear that wasn't the case, that Magnus and the other top players had heard rumours before the Miami event.

So now I'm thinking either:-

Magnus was given some inside access to other player's matches by chess.com and that solidified his mindset (which still raises all kinds of questions re the impartiality of chess.com, especially if it's to be respected by FIDE as a bonafide platform, which misdemeanors on can effect your OTB career).

Or

Magnus' mindset is as simple as "If I beat him he's not cheating but if he beats me he is cheating".

Both are problematic.

@h2b2 said in #42: > > not to mention chess.com was willing to send private email conversations to a news outlet, so I wouldn't be surprised if they talk about bans on the down low with other titled players they are friendly with, who talk about it with other titled players, who talk about it with other... It's funny but this was pretty much my take on what happened with Carlsen, i.e. he became privy to some inside information on Niemann after his financial link up with chess.com. I thought that would explain why he was happy to play Niemann just a couple of weeks before but then pulling out of a tournament after an OTB game, making his insinuations. However, I just watched a podcast with Fabiano Caruana and he was quite clear that wasn't the case, that Magnus and the other top players had heard rumours before the Miami event. So now I'm thinking either:- Magnus was given some inside access to other player's matches by chess.com and that solidified his mindset (which still raises all kinds of questions re the impartiality of chess.com, especially if it's to be respected by FIDE as a bonafide platform, which misdemeanors on can effect your OTB career). Or Magnus' mindset is as simple as "If I beat him he's not cheating but if he beats me he is cheating". Both are problematic.
#45

@MidiChlorianCount said in #32:

Seems unlikely but I wonder if this was done whether Carlsen could still circumnavigate a ban having a huge impact on his earnings potential.

One thing not really being discussed re this situation is the rising power of chess.com. Didn't they recently have some kind of financial deal / tie up with Carlsen? (Just my opinion, but I'm guessing post this was when Magnus became party to certain information re Niemann).

Anyway, if chess.com announced it was backing some rival tour to FIDE's which Carlsen would be taking part in, would banning Carlsen really have any effect? After all he's already stood down from defending the World title.

Of course, Carlsen won't get a lifetime ban. Two years would be enough for me. I do think it would be annoying for Carlsen. Of course he could then take part in any online tournaments, but he definitely wants to take part in OTB tournaments as well. And if he couldn't do that for two years, that would certainly be unpleasant for him, world champion or not. Since he turned down another world championship fight, he won't be world champion much longer.
For me, Carlsen is no longer a world champion. Anyone who refuses to compete against certain challengers and thus does not respect them does not deserve the title of a world champion. The world championship title also comes with certain obligations. And one has to honor this title. For me, Carlsen can disappear into oblivion.

@MidiChlorianCount said in #32: > Seems unlikely but I wonder if this was done whether Carlsen could still circumnavigate a ban having a huge impact on his earnings potential. > > One thing not really being discussed re this situation is the rising power of chess.com. Didn't they recently have some kind of financial deal / tie up with Carlsen? (Just my opinion, but I'm guessing post this was when Magnus became party to certain information re Niemann). > > Anyway, if chess.com announced it was backing some rival tour to FIDE's which Carlsen would be taking part in, would banning Carlsen really have any effect? After all he's already stood down from defending the World title. Of course, Carlsen won't get a lifetime ban. Two years would be enough for me. I do think it would be annoying for Carlsen. Of course he could then take part in any online tournaments, but he definitely wants to take part in OTB tournaments as well. And if he couldn't do that for two years, that would certainly be unpleasant for him, world champion or not. Since he turned down another world championship fight, he won't be world champion much longer. For me, Carlsen is no longer a world champion. Anyone who refuses to compete against certain challengers and thus does not respect them does not deserve the title of a world champion. The world championship title also comes with certain obligations. And one has to honor this title. For me, Carlsen can disappear into oblivion.
#46

@williamxp said in #44:

Chess.com closes more than 500 accounts every day for cheating , lichess?

www.chess.com/article/view/online-chess-cheating
Wow!!!! Online chess was essentially meaningless until the pandemic made it the venue for big money tournaments for top players who could not play otb. The assumption should be that at least 75% of online games involve cheating because there are no video or other anti-cheating measures in place other than unknown algorithms that do little more than cast suspicion on players at the mercy of Capitalist idiots like Danny Rensch and Nakamura.

Let's see the proof, Magnus , of how Niemann cheated otb against you in St. Louis. And let's have all the facts about all of your communications with Danny Rensch about Niemann once you had your deal to sell your company to Rensch for $85 million.
So far all Magnus has produced is the sound and fury of a World "champion" who has a history of anger management issues when he loses.

@williamxp said in #44: > Chess.com closes more than 500 accounts every day for cheating , lichess? > > www.chess.com/article/view/online-chess-cheating Wow!!!! Online chess was essentially meaningless until the pandemic made it the venue for big money tournaments for top players who could not play otb. The assumption should be that at least 75% of online games involve cheating because there are no video or other anti-cheating measures in place other than unknown algorithms that do little more than cast suspicion on players at the mercy of Capitalist idiots like Danny Rensch and Nakamura. Let's see the proof, Magnus , of how Niemann cheated otb against you in St. Louis. And let's have all the facts about all of your communications with Danny Rensch about Niemann once you had your deal to sell your company to Rensch for $85 million. So far all Magnus has produced is the sound and fury of a World "champion" who has a history of anger management issues when he loses.
#47

@h2b2 said in #42:

not to mention chess.com was willing to send private email conversations to a news outlet...

I am surprised so little has been made of this. Chess.com emphases Fair Play and this was a very dirty play.
The news outlet confirms that Neimann's third ban didn't occur till after Carlsen pulled out of the Sinquefield Cup.
Chess.com will also be releasing their 'dirty dosser' on Niemann this week.

Strikes me if you are willing to break customer confidentiality to further business aims, then you are hardly going to be sound elsewhere. I am guessing the 'dirty dosser' will be very strong on Niemann's on-line first and second bans but very weak on the third. Time will tell.

@h2b2 said in #42: > not to mention chess.com was willing to send private email conversations to a news outlet... I am surprised so little has been made of this. Chess.com emphases Fair Play and this was a very dirty play. The news outlet confirms that Neimann's third ban didn't occur till after Carlsen pulled out of the Sinquefield Cup. Chess.com will also be releasing their 'dirty dosser' on Niemann this week. Strikes me if you are willing to break customer confidentiality to further business aims, then you are hardly going to be sound elsewhere. I am guessing the 'dirty dosser' will be very strong on Niemann's on-line first and second bans but very weak on the third. Time will tell.
#48

uh do cheaters have the same rights to confidentiality as other players? what if they lie about how often they cheat?

uh do cheaters have the same rights to confidentiality as other players? what if they lie about how often they cheat?
#50

@AlexiHarvey said in #47:

I am surprised so little has been made of this. Chess.com emphases Fair Play and this was a very dirty play.
The news outlet confirms that Neimann's third ban didn't occur till after Carlsen pulled out of the Sinquefield Cup.
Chess.com will also be releasing their 'dirty dosser' on Niemann this week.

Strikes me if you are willing to break customer confidentiality to further business aims, then you are hardly going to be sound elsewhere. I am guessing the 'dirty dosser' will be very strong on Niemann's on-line first and second bans but very weak on the third. Time will tell.

Thanks for posting this.

To me this whole gaslighting scandal is obscene to the extreme. I hope news media and every day players can stop calling this a "Cheating scandal" and actually address what it is.

@AlexiHarvey said in #47: > I am surprised so little has been made of this. Chess.com emphases Fair Play and this was a very dirty play. > The news outlet confirms that Neimann's third ban didn't occur till after Carlsen pulled out of the Sinquefield Cup. > Chess.com will also be releasing their 'dirty dosser' on Niemann this week. > > Strikes me if you are willing to break customer confidentiality to further business aims, then you are hardly going to be sound elsewhere. I am guessing the 'dirty dosser' will be very strong on Niemann's on-line first and second bans but very weak on the third. Time will tell. Thanks for posting this. To me this whole gaslighting scandal is obscene to the extreme. I hope news media and every day players can stop calling this a "Cheating scandal" and actually address what it is.

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