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Tips on how to analyze without engine

#1

Hi
I started to try to analyze without using engine at all (not even to check later what I had missed, etc...)
I enjoy this concept of just keeping the game a mystery and not knowing the truth of the position for at least a few days or weeks before looking with the engine.

But... after showing my analysis to a 2100 he was like "bro.. you missed everything both during the game and in the analysis.. you threw here, here, there and also here.."

So that's actually what I felt and why I relied on the engine to analyze mostly.. when I try to look for lines or just in general to assess the game on my own, I just think everything looks logical, my opponent played well, I played well, all is well...
When in reality we both missed tons of stuff, etc...

So how do I improve at this? any tips?

Thx

Hi I started to try to analyze without using engine at all (not even to check later what I had missed, etc...) I enjoy this concept of just keeping the game a mystery and not knowing the truth of the position for at least a few days or weeks before looking with the engine. But... after showing my analysis to a 2100 he was like "bro.. you missed everything both during the game and in the analysis.. you threw here, here, there and also here.." So that's actually what I felt and why I relied on the engine to analyze mostly.. when I try to look for lines or just in general to assess the game on my own, I just think everything looks logical, my opponent played well, I played well, all is well... When in reality we both missed tons of stuff, etc... So how do I improve at this? any tips? Thx
#2

One bit of trivia from the 'old days' of chess, one of the very few I know, are the many many examples of the best players being entirely mistaken in their published 'expert analysis' even of their own games ... the examples are endless.

Use the machine ... it will teach you, because it's really, really good at this stuff.

Just step through your games, immed. post mortem, and the engine will reveal all kinds of amazing chess surprises.

One bit of trivia from the 'old days' of chess, one of the very few I know, are the many many examples of the best players being entirely mistaken in their published 'expert analysis' even of their own games ... the examples are endless. Use the machine ... it will teach you, because it's really, really good at this stuff. Just step through your games, immed. post mortem, and the engine will reveal all kinds of amazing chess surprises.
#3

@boilingFrog said in #2:

One bit of trivia from the 'old days' of chess, one of the very few I know, are the many many examples of the best players being entirely mistaken in their published 'expert analysis' even of their own games ... the examples are endless.

Use the machine ... it will teach you, because it's really, really good at this stuff.

Just step through your games, immed. post mortem, and the engine will reveal all kinds of amazing chess surprises.

yea but for example u hear some FMs and such say "if u analyze only with the engine u will keep on sucking at chess forever"... so im trying to understand how u learn to actually see missed tactics and misevaluated trades or whatever in a game with just your own analysis.. cuz if u didnt see it in the game why would you suddenly see it later

@boilingFrog said in #2: > One bit of trivia from the 'old days' of chess, one of the very few I know, are the many many examples of the best players being entirely mistaken in their published 'expert analysis' even of their own games ... the examples are endless. > > Use the machine ... it will teach you, because it's really, really good at this stuff. > > Just step through your games, immed. post mortem, and the engine will reveal all kinds of amazing chess surprises. yea but for example u hear some FMs and such say "if u analyze only with the engine u will keep on sucking at chess forever"... so im trying to understand how u learn to actually see missed tactics and misevaluated trades or whatever in a game with just your own analysis.. cuz if u didnt see it in the game why would you suddenly see it later
#4

@thesonics said in #3:
... if u didnt see it in the game why would you suddenly see it later

Ummm, because the engine will show it to you ?

@thesonics said in #3: ... if u didnt see it in the game why would you suddenly see it later Ummm, because the engine will show it to you ?
#5
<Comment deleted by user>
#10

Pieces have a starting position value (rooks 5, queen 9, pawns 1, etc). But once the game start, the value of the pieces is relative to the position and their values are also dynamic, as the position might change soon.

But not only the pieces have value, the squares themselves have value when they are vital to control, and the tempos.

So a trapped rook in the corner in the late game has a value of 0-1. A bishop acting as a pawn its only worth 1 point, etc A knight that cannot be removed from a forward outpost might have a value of 4-5 points. A passed pawn, well, almost invaluable..

Obviously, if the trapped rook in the corner can get to an open file next move, and then to the center, if the diagonal suddenly opens for the bishop, if the passed pawn cannot be protected, the value of the pieces change rapidly. Might go up or down.

So, making an estimation on how much "points" you have is extremely complicated, as the evaluation changes from one move to the other, but the idea relies on identifying the key squares that are a necessity to control if you want a commanding position. Once you are able to identify the key squares that you have to control, either offensively or defensively, its just matter to identify which of your pieces can get there first, if you have little tempos to play with, or which one is optimally placed there (or control the square from range) if you have more. Then you just re route.

Also, when making the evaluation, you have to plan for the future, it is not just about how are you in that current position, but also how to improve your pieces. So, if you want to open a diagonal or a column, you might need to break open a diagonal and transform the pawn structure if it favors you. If it doesnt, then you might want to re route the pieces to another file/diagonal.

And to put the cherry on the top, you want to do all of the above, while at the same time, building a prospect for having an attack.

Evaluation of the position might be the hardest skill to master in my opinion, but most of the idea of it is identifying which squares are vital to control to build up your attack or to prevent your opponent from getting the control of those squares, so he cant attack.

Pieces have a starting position value (rooks 5, queen 9, pawns 1, etc). But once the game start, the value of the pieces is relative to the position and their values are also dynamic, as the position might change soon. But not only the pieces have value, the squares themselves have value when they are vital to control, and the tempos. So a trapped rook in the corner in the late game has a value of 0-1. A bishop acting as a pawn its only worth 1 point, etc A knight that cannot be removed from a forward outpost might have a value of 4-5 points. A passed pawn, well, almost invaluable.. Obviously, if the trapped rook in the corner can get to an open file next move, and then to the center, if the diagonal suddenly opens for the bishop, if the passed pawn cannot be protected, the value of the pieces change rapidly. Might go up or down. So, making an estimation on how much "points" you have is extremely complicated, as the evaluation changes from one move to the other, but the idea relies on identifying the key squares that are a necessity to control if you want a commanding position. Once you are able to identify the key squares that you have to control, either offensively or defensively, its just matter to identify which of your pieces can get there first, if you have little tempos to play with, or which one is optimally placed there (or control the square from range) if you have more. Then you just re route. Also, when making the evaluation, you have to plan for the future, it is not just about how are you in that current position, but also how to improve your pieces. So, if you want to open a diagonal or a column, you might need to break open a diagonal and transform the pawn structure if it favors you. If it doesnt, then you might want to re route the pieces to another file/diagonal. And to put the cherry on the top, you want to do all of the above, while at the same time, building a prospect for having an attack. Evaluation of the position might be the hardest skill to master in my opinion, but most of the idea of it is identifying which squares are vital to control to build up your attack or to prevent your opponent from getting the control of those squares, so he cant attack.

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