Puzzle: https://lichess.org/training/136270904
Some puzzels just don't make sense (to me), even when checking with the engine. Like this one for example. The first move is logical, you want to deflect the king from B4.
But why would you then go to C5? If you run to the other pawns your opponent will have a queen a move before you do. On the other hand, if you go to A5, like I did, it will be a draw as well since you keep shuffling back and forth with the kings. So where is the clear advantage by going to C5?
Puzzle: https://lichess.org/training/136270904
Some puzzels just don't make sense (to me), even when checking with the engine. Like this one for example. The first move is logical, you want to deflect the king from B4.
But why would you then go to C5? If you run to the other pawns your opponent will have a queen a move before you do. On the other hand, if you go to A5, like I did, it will be a draw as well since you keep shuffling back and forth with the kings. So where is the clear advantage by going to C5?
Once both sides promote a pawn, you can take all of their pawns to promote another queen.
Once both sides promote a pawn, you can take all of their pawns to promote another queen.
T@Alancheng said in #2:
Once both sides promote a pawn, you can take all of their pawns to promote another queen.
True but the white queen will keep checking you indefinitely so it will be a draw in the end?
T@Alancheng said in #2:
> Once both sides promote a pawn, you can take all of their pawns to promote another queen.
True but the white queen will keep checking you indefinitely so it will be a draw in the end?
Yep, not really a good Puzzle (I just TD'ed it).
Yep, not really a good Puzzle (I just TD'ed it).
@nielsvermeiren said in #1:
if you go to A5, like I did, it will be a draw as well since you keep shuffling back and forth with the kings
Some moves ahead Black can't keep that dance and these a-b pawns are eliminated.
@nielsvermeiren said in #3:
but the white queen will keep checking you indefinitely so it will be a draw in the end?
Again, at some point it is no longer the case (Black King has some additional protection because of the pawns, and only check option for White allows Black to force Queens exchange).
@nielsvermeiren said in #1:
> if you go to A5, like I did, it will be a draw as well since you keep shuffling back and forth with the kings
Some moves ahead Black can't keep that dance and these a-b pawns are eliminated.
@nielsvermeiren said in #3:
> but the white queen will keep checking you indefinitely so it will be a draw in the end?
Again, at some point it is no longer the case (Black King has some additional protection because of the pawns, and only check option for White allows Black to force Queens exchange).
It's a very difficult puzzle. I happened to get it right for the wrong reason hahah (meaning that the move was right but the plan I had would have been a losing plan).
Anyway, I believe that the idea is that after it takes the pawn, the opponent's king is in a square such that when you promote you give check.
Very hard to spot it beforehand though.
It's a very difficult puzzle. I happened to get it right for the wrong reason hahah (meaning that the move was right but the plan I had would have been a losing plan).
Anyway, I believe that the idea is that after it takes the pawn, the opponent's king is in a square such that when you promote you give check.
Very hard to spot it beforehand though.
@esmiro said in #6:
after it takes the pawn, the opponent's king is in a square such that when you promote you give check.
Yes, that's the kind of subtleties you find in higher rated puzzles, I was quite surprised to see the low rating of this.
@esmiro said in #6:
> after it takes the pawn, the opponent's king is in a square such that when you promote you give check.
Yes, that's the kind of subtleties you find in higher rated puzzles, I was quite surprised to see the low rating of this.
Okay thank you guys for your answers I think I get it now.
Okay thank you guys for your answers I think I get it now.
The reason this puzzle is not so high rated is... most people get it right. So it is not really difficult for most people. If you failed, there is your chance to learn something. :-)
The first question is: do we play h5 or hxg5? With hxg5 White has two options to retake, and in fact fxg5 wins for White; but even hxg5 gives White the opposition and it's unlikely that Black could play for anything here.
Then there's the question on the second move: a5 or c5 for the king. Ka5 cannot lead to anything - how would you ever progress after Kb3? You could only go back. Kc5 is the obvious move to make, and gains the opposition.
Is it winning? Yes it is, but you don't even need to know this at this point, because you have seen that it is the only move worth playing.
And to counter @MrPushwood , I "TU"ed it. :-)
The reason this puzzle is not so high rated is... most people get it right. So it is not really difficult for most people. If you failed, there is your chance to learn something. :-)
The first question is: do we play h5 or hxg5? With hxg5 White has two options to retake, and in fact fxg5 wins for White; but even hxg5 gives White the opposition and it's unlikely that Black could play for anything here.
Then there's the question on the second move: a5 or c5 for the king. Ka5 cannot lead to anything - how would you ever progress after Kb3? You could only go back. Kc5 is the obvious move to make, and gains the opposition.
Is it winning? Yes it is, but you don't even need to know this at this point, because you have seen that it is the only move worth playing.
And to counter @MrPushwood , I "TU"ed it. :-)
@nadjarostowa
I got the king move right because usually in those positions we need to prevent the opponent's king to advance using opposition.
Though, I surely did not realize that, after promotion, the queen on f8 would give check.
So, like I did, the majority of people might accidentally give the right answer out of instinct, but they didn't really "solve" the puzzle in a deeper sense of the word "solving".
@nadjarostowa
I got the king move right because usually in those positions we need to prevent the opponent's king to advance using opposition.
Though, I surely did not realize that, after promotion, the queen on f8 would give check.
So, like I did, the majority of people might accidentally give the right answer out of instinct, but they didn't really "solve" the puzzle in a deeper sense of the word "solving".