Complaint: Disappointment with moderators in forums

I am personally disappointed with forum moderation as well. I do not know what happened or is happening in this specific case, but I will say that there are internal issues with how we operate, on a technical level, that may lead to reports of forum posts going unnoticed. But even without that, in my opinion we do not have enough rules to sufficiently moderate a forum, as opposed to tournament chats.
We are working on that, and have so for a long time. Our decision making processes for changing rules do not lend themselves to quick decisions at the best of times though, and the fact that very few team members have any interest in the forums at all slows this down even more. It is quite frankly very frustrating, and I am still not certain that the result of this process will not be the complete removal of the forums.

@clousems said in #10:

I get the feeling that the only reason I was punished is because I had the gall to complain about moderators.

This is almost certainly not what happened though. Our policy is to allow a lot more negative comments about a moderator or moderators as a group, than about any other individual or group.

Would at least be good if you know you could speak to particular moderators if you want an explanation of why someone is not getting banned despite clearly obvious misbehavior. I know why you do this with cheating but there's no reason to do it with forums/chats.

On the bright side, the culprit behind this thread was nuked very swiftly just now.

Moderation is highly subjective, @clousems - what might be acceptable to one guy might be totally unacceptable to another. Not saying that that's right, but I think that a lot of people, mods included, have gotten used to how many political posts get put on Off-Topic every day - and that they no longer bother to moderate them, since they inevitable derail into forum wars every single time.

Maybe the best solution would just be some sort of attitude change on a whole from the Lichess public where we aren't arguing Israel vs. Palestine and Biden vs. Trump and all the other political issues every single day, but until then - it's kinda expected that someone who has a very strong idea about something will go around bullying everyone that doesn't agree with them.

Not that I think that's right. I think a lot of these threads should be closed since they qualify for "insult contests" in Lichess etiquette. I just don't think that moderation is so much the problem as the people in general.

@Cedur216 said in #12:

Would at least be good if you know you could speak to particular moderators if you want an explanation of why someone is not getting banned despite clearly obvious misbehavior.

I mean, can't you DM a mod to ask about that? Although I would get that it's probably not something they would answer, since if they gave an explanation every time that could be abused.

@greenteakitten said in #14:

I mean, can't you DM a mod to ask about that? Although I would get that it's probably not something they would answer, since if they gave an explanation every time that could be abused.

It seems like allowing people to message mods asking for explanations would just eat up more of the mods time and result in arguments in DMs instead of forums.

Regarding anonmod's posting #11:

Ultimately I think it's impossible to reduce moderation to a set of rules, however comprehensive you make them. And there's no perfect way to deal with a person who gradually gets more and more objectionable with their postings and who frequently says things which are arguably just about within the boundaries of being acceptable, or arguably just outside them. The point when you say "enough is enough" will depend on individual moderators.

However, if there are insufficient moderators prepared to moderate the forum, that is unfair on those who are doing it. A solid team is necessary so that each mod feels supported.

Recruitment drive needed, perhaps?

@Brian-E said in #16:

Regarding anonmod's posting #11:

Recruitment drive needed, perhaps?

Part of the problem there is that the people who would be willing to moderate the forums are usually the guys who post the most in forums-- and they would make terrible moderators.

Consider this: Of all the non-mod people who sift through the off-topic section, I am arguably the most qualified to moderate (on paper), as I have a great deal of experience with that section and more knowledge of lichess rules than most. I also just got in trouble for telling someone to "fuck off".

There are maybe 2 people who appear in that section who both are old enough to understand the rules and mature enough to follow them. And let's face it-- nobody who does real work for lichess wants to go to that section. They love chess. They aren't usually here to discuss their favorite cheeses or Taylor Swift music videos.

@clousems said in #17:

and they would make terrible moderators

Why? I can think of a couple people that would make good moderators!

@greenteakitten said in #18:

Why? I can think of a couple people that would make good moderators!

I would like some names if that's not too much trouble.

@InvincibleX17 said in #19:

I would like some names if that's not too much trouble.

Probably best not to publicly name them here.

(Also there's a good chance that maybe they were offered a chance to moderate and just turned it down or something.)