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How is it possible for a player to have lowest rating 800 and highest 2200+?

#1

I've been playing on this server last 3 years with over 11K games played. I have never seen players like this... https://lichess.org/@/VRK/perf/blitz

Highest rating: 2252
26 Mar 2020, 14:27

Lowest rating: 800
29 Apr 2019, 10:44

I find this extremely suspicious. I find it very hard to believe that an 800 rated player can achieve 2200+ in less than 1 year even with a personal chess coach.

And the same goes for this player here https://lichess.org/@/Dawista77/perf/blitz

Highest rating: 2066
5 Nov 2016, 09:09

Lowest rating: 1356
13 Jan 2019, 01:51

Best rated victories
FM jposthuma (2340) 1 Jan 2017, 09:41

Worst rated defeats
tilucp (926) 3 Aug 2018, 14:32

Seriously, there is absolutely no way for a player to have such huge rating differences and worst defeats against players below 1000 rated opponents all the while being able to defeat a FIDE Master. Without actually deliberately losing to make their ratings poor, this is virtually impossible.

The most obvious is the second player. He cannot be achieving 2000+ in 2016 and then 3 years later have his rating performance deteriorate to such an extent that it drops to 1356.

Once we genuinely achieve a certain rating you really can't drop that low unless you have brain damage or some sort of alzheimer's disease or dementia.

I'm not trying to be discriminative and say it's not possible for a poorly rated player to improve. But here we do not see natural improvement or deterioration that can be described as realistic. Modest variation is normal or if the rating increase can be seen after a longer length of time where the player is able to prove that he/she really improved.

We know there are cheaters who deliberately drop their ratings so they can enter low entry rated tournaments and win against those players. So that way a stronger player is artificially winning tournaments against weaker opponents due to sandbagging as described in the FAQ.

Sandbaggers should be banned from participating tournaments and should have a marker in their profile that states otherwise.

I've been playing on this server last 3 years with over 11K games played. I have never seen players like this... https://lichess.org/@/VRK/perf/blitz Highest rating: 2252 26 Mar 2020, 14:27 Lowest rating: 800 29 Apr 2019, 10:44 I find this extremely suspicious. I find it very hard to believe that an 800 rated player can achieve 2200+ in less than 1 year even with a personal chess coach. And the same goes for this player here https://lichess.org/@/Dawista77/perf/blitz Highest rating: 2066 5 Nov 2016, 09:09 Lowest rating: 1356 13 Jan 2019, 01:51 Best rated victories FM jposthuma (2340) 1 Jan 2017, 09:41 Worst rated defeats tilucp (926) 3 Aug 2018, 14:32 Seriously, there is absolutely no way for a player to have such huge rating differences and worst defeats against players below 1000 rated opponents all the while being able to defeat a FIDE Master. Without actually deliberately losing to make their ratings poor, this is virtually impossible. The most obvious is the second player. He cannot be achieving 2000+ in 2016 and then 3 years later have his rating performance deteriorate to such an extent that it drops to 1356. Once we genuinely achieve a certain rating you really can't drop that low unless you have brain damage or some sort of alzheimer's disease or dementia. I'm not trying to be discriminative and say it's not possible for a poorly rated player to improve. But here we do not see natural improvement or deterioration that can be described as realistic. Modest variation is normal or if the rating increase can be seen after a longer length of time where the player is able to prove that he/she really improved. We know there are cheaters who deliberately drop their ratings so they can enter low entry rated tournaments and win against those players. So that way a stronger player is artificially winning tournaments against weaker opponents due to sandbagging as described in the FAQ. Sandbaggers should be banned from participating tournaments and should have a marker in their profile that states otherwise.
#2

One other reason for huge rating discrepancies like this could be account sharing. Maybe someone gave his account to his son or lets him occasionally use it, for example.

One other reason for huge rating discrepancies like this could be account sharing. Maybe someone gave his account to his son or lets him occasionally use it, for example.
#3

The skill difference between 800 and 2200 isn't really all that large. Just getting a hang of all the low hanging fruits in chess is enough to become a GM,. It's one of those the higher you go the harder it gets to make progress type deals.

The skill difference between 800 and 2200 isn't really all that large. Just getting a hang of all the low hanging fruits in chess is enough to become a GM,. It's one of those the higher you go the harder it gets to make progress type deals.
#4

@GoLdEnFLAME If you find someone suspicious, then report him, but don't publicly shame him here.

@GoLdEnFLAME If you find someone suspicious, then report him, but don't publicly shame him here.
#5

Well i just looked through the games of the first player and it seems he dropped his rating down to 800 right from the beginning on porpuse. He resigned a lot of games after just 2, 3, 4 or 5 moves to lose rating. Maybe he is really good and wanted to give himself a challenge by starting at 800 and not 1500?

Well i just looked through the games of the first player and it seems he dropped his rating down to 800 right from the beginning on porpuse. He resigned a lot of games after just 2, 3, 4 or 5 moves to lose rating. Maybe he is really good and wanted to give himself a challenge by starting at 800 and not 1500?
#6

@braunegefahr he could have resigned for any number of reasons, perhaps he misevaluated the position or thought he made a mistake and decided to go next and practice playing optimally, like a drill. You have no right to judge and should mind your own business.

@braunegefahr he could have resigned for any number of reasons, perhaps he misevaluated the position or thought he made a mistake and decided to go next and practice playing optimally, like a drill. You have no right to judge and should mind your own business.
#7

@Zephix Well in the case of the first player, VRK. Having viewed his worst rated defeats I have noticed he resigned within 3-5 moves in all of them. This is definitely sandbagging and not account sharing.

@YouGetNoRest I understand if this was skill difference between 1800 and 2200. But we are talking here about rating 800, that is over 1400 rating points lower. The gulf in class is huge, you simply cannot lose to an 800 rated player unless either your time ran out or you had some electric or internet outage. But in this case we see not only worst rated defeats against sub 1000 rated opponents but also a rating drop to that level.

I know this from personal experience. Having improved my rating, I don't dip below a certain rating. Like I haven't been below 1900 in over a year in Blitz or Rapid. Even when I am out of form, my rating can drop, but it doesn't yo-yo drastically.

Now I understand if my rating went down to 1700, that may be believable. But it is definitely impossible for me to drop to 1200 or 800. This will never happen even if I become a demented 100 year old.

This is like riding a bike. If someone said that they forgot how to ride a bike or forget how to speak or write in their native language, I would think that they will need their brains examined.

@sheckley666 This is open secret. What is there to shame? The guy doing this has only him/herself to blame. If people can be marked for computer chess assistance cheat or Valve have VAC banning next to player profiles in Steam accounts, this isn't any different. These players don't even know that I opened a thread here. But I am only giving examples of such players how they are exploiting the system.

@Zephix Well in the case of the first player, VRK. Having viewed his worst rated defeats I have noticed he resigned within 3-5 moves in all of them. This is definitely sandbagging and not account sharing. @YouGetNoRest I understand if this was skill difference between 1800 and 2200. But we are talking here about rating 800, that is over 1400 rating points lower. The gulf in class is huge, you simply cannot lose to an 800 rated player unless either your time ran out or you had some electric or internet outage. But in this case we see not only worst rated defeats against sub 1000 rated opponents but also a rating drop to that level. I know this from personal experience. Having improved my rating, I don't dip below a certain rating. Like I haven't been below 1900 in over a year in Blitz or Rapid. Even when I am out of form, my rating can drop, but it doesn't yo-yo drastically. Now I understand if my rating went down to 1700, that may be believable. But it is definitely impossible for me to drop to 1200 or 800. This will never happen even if I become a demented 100 year old. This is like riding a bike. If someone said that they forgot how to ride a bike or forget how to speak or write in their native language, I would think that they will need their brains examined. @sheckley666 This is open secret. What is there to shame? The guy doing this has only him/herself to blame. If people can be marked for computer chess assistance cheat or Valve have VAC banning next to player profiles in Steam accounts, this isn't any different. These players don't even know that I opened a thread here. But I am only giving examples of such players how they are exploiting the system.
#8

I looked through almost all games and he always resigned after 2,3,4 or 5 moves. Thats a fact. Then after he reached 800, he immediately stopped doing this and increased very fast. Thats also a fact. So likely to 99% he dropped his rating on porpuse. I dont know the reason why, but one possibility is, that he is very good and wanted to have a challenge by starting from 800 and not from 1500.

Also i dont want to judge him, i am just saying what i observed. Without any judging.
I didnt say its bad. Maybe he wanted to start at 800 like i said. And he thought there is no other way to do so. Its a difficult situation. I think, the best would have been to ask lichess if he could start at 800. But maybe he did not consider this option and chose the other one.

Again, i am just trying to find a logic explanation for this. I dont judge him

I looked through almost all games and he always resigned after 2,3,4 or 5 moves. Thats a fact. Then after he reached 800, he immediately stopped doing this and increased very fast. Thats also a fact. So likely to 99% he dropped his rating on porpuse. I dont know the reason why, but one possibility is, that he is very good and wanted to have a challenge by starting from 800 and not from 1500. Also i dont want to judge him, i am just saying what i observed. Without any judging. I didnt say its bad. Maybe he wanted to start at 800 like i said. And he thought there is no other way to do so. Its a difficult situation. I think, the best would have been to ask lichess if he could start at 800. But maybe he did not consider this option and chose the other one. Again, i am just trying to find a logic explanation for this. I dont judge him
#9

https://i.gyazo.com/1d2bb064a5d39b9450f08604b0972961.gif

"I find this extremely suspicious. I find it very hard to believe that an 800 rated player can achieve 2200+ in less than 1 year even with a personal chess coach."

If you go to chess.com there is a lot of 2k+, even GM's with superlow rating thees days. They only play on cc for events and thus, only play other massively underrated players. So you have a ~2k player playing a titled player and they both have ? in rating. As for players who drop a lot of rating, it seems to me that they always have super-long playing streaks. They play past the point of exhaustion and drop lot's of rating fast. 'Longest streak: 18 hours and 43 minutes' The other reasons mentions so far can explain it too of course.

https://i.gyazo.com/1d2bb064a5d39b9450f08604b0972961.gif "I find this extremely suspicious. I find it very hard to believe that an 800 rated player can achieve 2200+ in less than 1 year even with a personal chess coach." If you go to chess.com there is a lot of 2k+, even GM's with superlow rating thees days. They only play on cc for events and thus, only play other massively underrated players. So you have a ~2k player playing a titled player and they both have ? in rating. As for players who drop a lot of rating, it seems to me that they always have super-long playing streaks. They play past the point of exhaustion and drop lot's of rating fast. 'Longest streak: 18 hours and 43 minutes' The other reasons mentions so far can explain it too of course.
#10

@braunegefahr Sandbagging is nothing but another form of trolling. It is usually not a challenge to beat players more than a thousand points below your "real" rating / playing strenght. OP should have just reported them, though, as I did multiple times already. Whenever I play a tournament I look at the players who performed best. Some are legit, many are sandbaggers or cheaters. If they would like a challenge, they could turn off the engine (cheaters) and just play strong opposition of their caliber or even above their playing strenght (sandbaggers).

@braunegefahr Sandbagging is nothing but another form of trolling. It is usually not a challenge to beat players more than a thousand points below your "real" rating / playing strenght. OP should have just reported them, though, as I did multiple times already. Whenever I play a tournament I look at the players who performed best. Some are legit, many are sandbaggers or cheaters. If they would like a challenge, they could turn off the engine (cheaters) and just play strong opposition of their caliber or even above their playing strenght (sandbaggers).

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