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  3. Creation vs. Atheism

I bet some people here already counted until unlimited in their life - twice.

You guys are interesting to read, but there's too much verbiage. I can't read it all. It strikes me that chess has good lessons for atheists and believers. You must believe in your position and fight for it, and you must avoid short term advantages(?) that end up taking you no where or the wrong way.

god played the jesus-gambit for a better endgame

OP is a big brain creationist... 200iq


Well, scripture does talk of people being "chosen." Also, there's a part of scripture in which God hated one of two brothers for seemingly no reason at all prior to his birth simply to show us that his "choosing" us is beyond our control. So...I don't know....maybe even the atheists are chosen by God from time to time. But, here is the focal point that we must all maintain awareness of: It really doesn't matter if an atheist can love. The only thing that matters, in so far as Christian theology is concerned, is whether or not one has accepted Jesus Christ as one's savior. That is fairly cryptic and seemingly pointless, but if we look at what Jesus Christ really is in the face of his particular time period then we can easily see that Jesus represents the absolute negation of greed, power, and other vices that are the opposite of radical self sacrificial love. Hence, if the atheist understands and fully adheres to a life of radical self sacrificial love for one's fellow man, then even the atheist can become an ideal Christian!

You should be crucified for that rubbish post.😜

@Kaynight1 said:
> You should be crucified for that rubbish post.

What else did you expect from a fascist? See #218:

> By the way I also like Franco.

Yeah, what's not to like about someone who got into power by a coup d'etat staged with the help of Hitler-Germany? No need to crucify him: todays pigs are tomorrows hams.


I am a young-earth Creationist, and frankly am that way out of personal experience. I have my very spirit and mental faculties because I asked the Creator for them per James 1:5. So far as I am concerned he Bible is fully defensible, along with Creationism from a logical and scientific standpoint. I have looked into the arguments for and against Creationism over the years and I see, from the Evolutionist side, a lot of interpretation of evidence from a beginning of trying to disprove God, but never any scientific facts that, in and of themselves, imply God does not exist.

I have a research page on the subject of Creationism, summarizing my analysis, here:

Just to give some examples of scientific discoveries that, are by themselves, contrary to an old beginning:

-Human population growth rates and microevolutionary rates: If atheists are right, and everything evolved gradually over millions and billions of years, then I would expect to see life evolving at a much slower rate. Human population growth for example, is above 1% in most countries worldwide, and in many countries above 2% or even 3%. At a 1% growth rate, one goes from the eight survivors of Noah's Ark to 7 billion population in just 2,071 years. Even at a growth rate just half of that, 0.5%, humankind should be only 4,130 years old.
This same pattern is followed in other types of life as well. Microevolutionary rates, contrary to the pattern you'd expect if Earth were old, are in the words of Yale's David Skelly, "on the scale of decades and tens of meters."
Examples include Australia's cane toads which evolved longer legs and heat tolerance within a few years, overrunning the continent and causing a major crisis in defiance of academic predictions which had concluded they couldn't possibly adapt quick enough to cause concern; Italian wall lizards that evolved cecal valves, muscles between the large and small intestines, with which to digest native vegetation, an expanded gut structure, and a harder bite within just a few decades. Plants and rodents have also been observed evolving very quickly as well.

-Dinosaur soft tissue: Soft tissue that wasn't supposed to survive hundreds of thousands of years, let alone millions, has been discovered from dinosaurs allegedly tens and hundreds of millions of years old. This includes blood vessels, egg shells, etc. Even mineralized, such structures should have broken down long ago. Even if soaked in formaldehyde, they should have decayed long ago. TalkOrigins attempted to write these off as biofilm for years, but it is now acknowledged that numerous soft tissue finds exist, and more are being discovered all the time. A Creationist paper carbon dating this soft tissue found that it dates to only a few thousand years ago, and was presented at the 2012 Western Pacific Geophysics Meeting in Singapore, but the paper has since been suppressed by academia.

-Recent hominin discoveries: If the Earth was as old as is claimed, I would expect to see recent discoveries showing a link between apes and humans. Instead, new discoveries continue to point to Creationism, indicating that both man and apes were created as distinct species, with mankind always complex and bipedal. For example, in 2009 the news media reported that ardipithecus ramidus, the new hominin an alleged 5 million years old, was in an advanced stage of evolution and bipedal; thus disproving the idea that mankind evolved from anything that looked like modern apes. Other recent discoveries since 2000 bear this out. In 2002, sahelanthropus tchadensis was discovered to likewise be bipedal with an unusually modern face. In 2000, orrorin tungenensis was likewise discovered in an advanced stage of evolution, and furthermore was found in a forested environment, thus disproving the savannah hypothesis. More recently it has been acknowledged that Lucy, aka australopithecus afarensis, as well as homo erectus, both walked upright.

-Ancient types of life similar to today's: The farther back we go in the fossil record, the more plain it is that the same types of life existed then as today's. There were ancient sharks, cockroaches, bees, elephants, tigers, dragonflies, coelecanths, etc., although often bigger than today's. If all life evolved from a common ancestor, I would expect to see brand new types of life from which today's life evolved, and intermediate forms, transitional forms, between them. Darwin proposed in 'On the Origin of Species' that we hadn't found those forms due to the incompleteness of the fossil record, but that was over 150 years ago. There's been plenty of time to find them and they still haven't been found. As a result, supporters of evolution moved the goalposts with the 1972 paper by Gould and Eldredge, 'Punctuated Equilibria: An Alternative to Phyletic Gradualism,' proposing what is now the dominant theory on evolution, Punctuated Equilibrium. Punctuated Equilibrium posits that, rather than the steady gradual and constant evolution originally proposed by Darwin, there are rapid bursts of evolution in response to catastrophes that cause evolution to speed up so rapidly that we don't see transitional forms between core species in the fossil record, as a way of explaining why so many key transitional forms between core types of life are missing. However, this makes evolution unfalsifiable and prevents it from being held accountable for the original, false predictions made by Darwin.

I just don't see the evidence for evolution, indeed the more I look, the more it clearly indicates a younger creation and core created species that microevolved, adapting to their environments the way God told them to bring forth after their kinds in Genesis 1.

Also, as a student of history, I strongly disagree with claims that religion and science are at odds, or the religious cannot be scientists. Actually many of the founders of modern science were Christians.

Isaac Newton for example wrote analysis of the books of Daniel and Revelation (which you can easily find online). Louis Pasteur disagreed with Darwin and used experiments to disprove the concept of spontaneous generation used to claim at the time that everything came from nothing. Matthew Maury, the father of hydrology, discovered ocean currents on the basis of Psalms 8:8.

Galileo, Copernicus, and Kepler may have been at odds with the unBiblical Catholic Church at times (as were numerous Protestant groups from the 2nd-12th centuries like the Albigenses, Cathar, Donatists, Montanists, Waldenses, etc.-see the Trail of Blood Chart by JM Carroll) but they were all firm believers in the Bible, as was Brahe.

Modern science and democracy were the result of Christian founding fathers. U.S. democracy originated with theocratic Christian colonies like William Penn's Province of Pennsylvania and Roger Williams' Colony of Rhode Island, both of which coexisted peacefully with Native Americans and sought fair treatment of them. America was strongly Christian after the First Great Awakening and became even more so after the Second. Eight of the original thirteen states required public officials in the 1770s, and both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison acknowledged that inalienable rights exist only because our Creator gives them to us; see the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom and Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments.

On the other hand, atheism in government has been tried extensively over the past century in the form of Socialism and Communism. Atheistic governments have killed more people in the last century than religious governments. Examples include the National Socialist Party of Germany which had 800 Protestant pastors imprisoned and executed the head of the Confessing Church, Dietrich Bonhoeffer; the Soviet Union under Stalin and Lenin; China under Mao; Cambodia under Pol Pot; and North Korea which continues to execute Christians. Furthermore, there are roughly 200 million missing women in Asia today as the result of sex-selective abortion due to Communist policies like China's One Child Policy.

@Jzyehoshua Agree with everything here, great post, God bless you