**DISCLAIMER**:all tests that I preformed were casual games against me on my phone on an anonymus account.these tests made no damage to the lichess elo ecosystem and did not hurt anyone's feelings.
so a premove initiative is when your oponent makes a premove before you make the move and repeat this procces while draining the oponent's time. this *is* allowed but you can regain this initiative in a way thats NOT allowed:
if you disconect the internet you can make moves that show up on your device but can't reach the lichess server. they only reach it when connection is reastablished. but you can use this to your advantage by disconecting your wifi making a local move which won't load the oponent premove because you didn't really make the move. then a local premove then reconect and your move will go through. then your oponent's premove. then your premove. you can prepare for this outcome and then premove before your oponent moves and you got the premove initiative. this can cost a lot of rating unfairly.
*sorry for typos in advance*
Sorry i don't understand how you could make switch off connection to make a premove offline if the opponent has already premvoed his (you only have a fraction of second).
Even if you manage to do so, how this will be beneficial despite you probably losing lot of seconds reconnecting?
@Ender88 said in #2:
> Sorry i don't understand how you could make switch off connection to make a premove offline if the opponent has already premvoed his (you only have a fraction of second).
The premove never loads because my move didn't reach the server and then on the ui i can make a premove that will load when i reconnect
> Even if you manage to do so, how this will be beneficial despite you probably losing lot of seconds reconnecting?
It is worth it as before your opponent was premoving before you make the move and you were the only one losing time. This lets people reverse that. I am not encouraging this behaviour I am proving that this is an exploit.
@lq2 said in #3:
> > Even if you manage to do so, how this will be beneficial despite you probably losing lot of seconds reconnecting?
>
> It is worth it as before your opponent was premoving before you make the move and you were the only one losing time. This lets people reverse that. I am not encouraging this behaviour I am proving that this is an exploit.
I think what Ender88 means is premoving to drain opponent's time is usually only beneficial in fast games with little time, which one would use up switching connections.
@IamNOTamod said in #4:
> > > Even if you manage to do so, how this will be beneficial despite you probably losing lot of seconds reconnecting?
> >
> > It is worth it as before your opponent was premoving before you make the move and you were the only one losing time. This lets people reverse that. I am not encouraging this behaviour I am proving that this is an exploit.
>
> I think what Ender88 means is premoving to drain opponent's time is usually only beneficial in fast games with little time, which one would use up switching connections.
Yes but not always. sometimes you have time but your opponent is mating you with 1 second. and you can optimize the method (with win+a keyboard shortcut,ethernet cables that you can quickly manage etc)
@lq2 said in #5:
> > > > Even if you manage to do so, how this will be beneficial despite you probably losing lot of seconds reconnecting?
> > >
> > > It is worth it as before your opponent was premoving before you make the move and you were the only one losing time. This lets people reverse that. I am not encouraging this behaviour I am proving that this is an exploit.
> >
> > I think what Ender88 means is premoving to drain opponent's time is usually only beneficial in fast games with little time, which one would use up switching connections.
>
>
> Yes but not always. sometimes you have time but your opponent is mating you with 1 second. and you can optimize the method (with win+a keyboard shortcut,ethernet cables that you can quickly manage etc)
1. You'd need some practice for that.
2. Oh no, don't paste the method here!!!
I think this would work, but it would need very specific circumstances to make this profitable:
a) Your opponent is a very fast premover - there is no "premove initiative" otherwise.
b) You are a very fast premover - or your gained advantage is immediately gone.
c) Time on the clocks are pretty low - to make this worthwhile.
d) The range of latency (for both players) that allows for this might be pretty limited.
e) Experienced players will often make your premove (or one of them) fail.
f) I guess messing with the system in that way could be detected rather easily.
So I guess the players who actually would benefit from this would need to be very good bullet players, like 2400+, and even then it's probably not worth it. Well, unless you automate it (which is not trivial).
On the other hand, detection looks simpler - Look for zero-time moves for player A, a disconnect by B, followed by zero-time moves for player B.
Whenever I experience some "premove initiative", it's usually because of failing premoves for one player.
@nadjarostowa said in #7:
> On the other hand, detection looks simpler - Look for zero-time moves for player A, a disconnect by B, followed by zero-time moves for player B.
Then this should be implemented
@lq2 said in #8:
> Then this should be implemented
Are you sure it isn't?
@nadjarostowa said in #9:
> > Then this should be implemented
>
> Are you sure it isn't?
Hmm I didn't see anything about this exploit on the tos page so I doubt that there is a rule against that so I doubt it is