Doubling Down on Why Lichess Should Add a Report Denial Feature

BEFORE READING THIS TOPIC, READ THIS ONE FOR CONTEXT: https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/lichess-should-make-a-report-denial-feature

After I created a suggestion for Lichess to add a report denial feature, I was told by (@)anonmod that the idea would "almost certainly not happen". When inquiring as to why this was the case using PMs, they told me, "First, your suggestion is based on an incorrect understanding of the moderation workflow. Second, because you have an incorrect understanding of what moderator decisions mean."

They also said, "Go to the forums. Look at different topics about cheat detection. Then read again what I wrote. [...] [S]tart to think about what a platform like lichess would want for its users."

Now, I will only be going over the second reason, as well as the other message I quoted, since (@)anonmod said the Lichess workflow was nearly impossible to explain.

Cheat detection was not really the main part of my post, but I did some research anyways.

I found these topics typing in "report cheater" into the forum search bar.
Here is the link if you want to view it yourself: https://lichess.org/forum/search?text=report+cheater

What I have derived from these topics is that Lichess users have a lack of trust to some degree of the cheat detection and report system.
When I think about what Lichess wants for its users, I believe that Lichess wants to create a safe, kind, and enjoyable environment for players to play chess and interact with other members of the chess community.
The lack of communication between moderators and players is creating distrust.
If Lichess simply added a simple report denial feature, it would resolve a major portion of that distrust. So what if denying reports is disappointing and will promote toxicity? ANY SORT OF NEWS is better and it will likely lower toxicity since players actually know that their voices are at least being HEARD, rather than players not knowing if moderators checked their report at all. In fact, I have reported quite a few people as well in the forums, but NEVER received a notification back, which only leaves me to assume that absolutely NO action was taken.
This cloistered style of report denial completely INVALIDATES users' opinions without providing ANY LOGICAL REASON why their reports, which, in their eyes, are completely LOGICAL.

Original topic: https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/lichess-should-make-a-report-denial-feature
Link of PMs: https://imgur.com/a/xWUObze

BEFORE READING THIS TOPIC, READ THIS ONE FOR CONTEXT: https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/lichess-should-make-a-report-denial-feature After I created a suggestion for Lichess to add a report denial feature, I was told by (@)anonmod that the idea would "almost certainly not happen". When inquiring as to why this was the case using PMs, they told me, "First, your suggestion is based on an incorrect understanding of the moderation workflow. Second, because you have an incorrect understanding of what moderator decisions mean." They also said, "Go to the forums. Look at different topics about cheat detection. Then read again what I wrote. [...] [S]tart to think about what a platform like lichess would want for its users." Now, I will only be going over the second reason, as well as the other message I quoted, since (@)anonmod said the Lichess workflow was nearly impossible to explain. Cheat detection was not really the main part of my post, but I did some research anyways. I went to the forums and compiled a list of topics, all relatively recent, regarding cheaters or the report system: https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/how-long-does-it-take-to-ban-a-cheater-?page=1 https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/i-cant-see-that-a-cheater-is-banned#1 https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/lichess-is-infested-with-cheaters-at-this-point-its-just-unplayable?page=1 https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/cheaters-20 https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/reporting-cheaters-3?page=1 https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/how-do-i-follow-up-about-a-community-standards-violation https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/is-online-chess-dead-because-of-cheaters https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/increase-of-cheater-or-limited-moderation https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/cheater-46#1 I found these topics typing in "report cheater" into the forum search bar. Here is the link if you want to view it yourself: https://lichess.org/forum/search?text=report+cheater What I have derived from these topics is that Lichess users have a lack of trust to some degree of the cheat detection and report system. When I think about what Lichess wants for its users, I believe that Lichess wants to create a safe, kind, and enjoyable environment for players to play chess and interact with other members of the chess community. The lack of communication between moderators and players is creating distrust. If Lichess simply added a simple report denial feature, it would resolve a major portion of that distrust. So what if denying reports is disappointing and will promote toxicity? ANY SORT OF NEWS is better and it will likely lower toxicity since players actually know that their voices are at least being HEARD, rather than players not knowing if moderators checked their report at all. In fact, I have reported quite a few people as well in the forums, but NEVER received a notification back, which only leaves me to assume that absolutely NO action was taken. This cloistered style of report denial completely INVALIDATES users' opinions without providing ANY LOGICAL REASON why their reports, which, in their eyes, are completely LOGICAL. Original topic: https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/lichess-should-make-a-report-denial-feature Link of PMs: https://imgur.com/a/xWUObze

InkyDarkBird

@c-bear

Autofill

I think it will lead to more complaining about reports being denied and “so and so is a cheater I swear why is lichess not banning them they are biased/wrong/whatever”

NM MrPushwood

Sorry, I'm still reading the other thing!

InkyDarkBird

@Autofill said in #3:

I think it will lead to more complaining about reports being denied and “so and so is a cheater I swear why is lichess not banning them they are biased/wrong/whatever”
Which is far more productive and effective at getting the right people banned.
It will also help moderators understand the userbase better.

@Autofill said in #3: > I think it will lead to more complaining about reports being denied and “so and so is a cheater I swear why is lichess not banning them they are biased/wrong/whatever” Which is far more productive and effective at getting the right people banned. It will also help moderators understand the userbase better.

C-Bear

So not only are reports about cheaters tossed for no reason. Valid complaints about lying mods are also ignored by lichess. Lichess simply doesn't care about cheaters and both admins and mods only act against the very blatant cheating.

It is even worse than the OP posts here. If a player reports another player it isn't logged. I talked to a mod who said that I didn't report anybody when I had done so over a course of 6 months for about 20 players. The mod said none was found when he searched for it and called me a liar in the forum. This was reported back to lichess. Nothing was done. So not only are reports about cheaters tossed for no reason. Valid complaints about lying mods are also ignored by lichess. Lichess simply doesn't care about cheaters and both admins and mods only act against the very blatant cheating.

Akbar2thegreat

Not sure but considering Lichess popularity in chess world, they should make it better by improving on certain aspects. Else over time, some would migrate to other chess servers. I hope Lichess takes this thread seriously.

for_cryingout_loud

@InkyDarkBird said in #5:

Which is far more productive and effective at getting the right people banned.
It will also help moderators understand the userbase better.

yes a bunch of people complain in forums so very productive just like all the lag debates
which both end in nothing getting done. Mods only need to understand cheaters and i am pretty sure people who do it that often and might be a bit stronger and wiser that both of us might know how to do it.

"If Lichess simply added a simple report denial feature"
that would only cause more problems as mentioned in #3 and who would want to report if they get denied

also most of the post to the forms are people thinking that x cheated they might not always be right (i mean you can test it by downloading all their games and running it through pgn spy)

@InkyDarkBird said in #5: > Which is far more productive and effective at getting the right people banned. > It will also help moderators understand the userbase better. yes a bunch of people complain in forums so very productive just like all the lag debates which both end in nothing getting done. Mods only need to understand cheaters and i am pretty sure people who do it that often and might be a bit stronger and wiser that both of us might know how to do it. "If Lichess simply added a simple report denial feature" that would only cause more problems as mentioned in #3 and who would want to report if they get denied also most of the post to the forms are people thinking that x cheated they might not always be right (i mean you can test it by downloading all their games and running it through pgn spy)

InkyDarkBird

#10

@for_cryingout_loud said in #9:

which both end in nothing getting done. Mods only need to understand cheaters and i am pretty sure people who do it that often and might be a bit stronger and wiser that both of us might know how to do it.
Again, my request does not only focus on cheaters, but reports in general.
I have reported people in the forums for clearly insulting me or a group of people by calling me names or assuming that the group has negative traits, yet no action was taken towards them.
Just blindly following a that group has more experience and trusting them all the time while receiving minimal information from them is suboptimal.

"If Lichess simply added a simple report denial feature"
that would only cause more problems as mentioned in #3 and who would want to report if they get denied
It encourages Lichess moderators to perform better since the more people whose valid reports get denied, the more confusing the Lichess moderators appear to be.
Users do not necessarily need to re-report users, but they could take talks to the forums.

also most of the post to the forms are people thinking that x cheated they might not always be right (i mean you can test it by downloading all their games and running it through pgn spy)
Exactly, and moderators telling them that they are wrong would at least show that their reports are being read and analyzed to some degree, which would dissuade some from arguing that someone cheated.

@for_cryingout_loud said in #9: > which both end in nothing getting done. Mods only need to understand cheaters and i am pretty sure people who do it that often and might be a bit stronger and wiser that both of us might know how to do it. Again, my request does not only focus on cheaters, but reports in general. I have reported people in the forums for clearly insulting me or a group of people by calling me names or assuming that the group has negative traits, yet no action was taken towards them. Just blindly following a that group has more experience and trusting them all the time while receiving minimal information from them is suboptimal. > "If Lichess simply added a simple report denial feature" > that would only cause more problems as mentioned in #3 and who would want to report if they get denied It encourages Lichess moderators to perform better since the more people whose valid reports get denied, the more confusing the Lichess moderators appear to be. Users do not necessarily need to re-report users, but they could take talks to the forums. > also most of the post to the forms are people thinking that x cheated they might not always be right (i mean you can test it by downloading all their games and running it through pgn spy) Exactly, and moderators telling them that they are wrong would at least show that their reports are being read and analyzed to some degree, which would dissuade some from arguing that someone cheated.

#11

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