- Blind mode tutorial
lichess.org
Donate

Will chess ever be solved?

With reference from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game, "A solved game is a game whose outcome (win, lose or draw) can be correctly predicted from any position, assuming that both players play perfectly" and "In game theory, perfect play is the behavior or strategy of a player that leads to the best possible outcome for that player regardless of the response by the opponent."

Popular games that have been 'strongly' solved include tic-tac-toe (intuitively guaranteed a draw on perfect play, though certain simple strategies can be used to confuse the opponent), Connect-4 (where the first player can force a win) and loads more, which you can check out in the Wikipedia link above.

The article also states that 8x8 Draughts has also been solved, where, with perfect play, "both players can guarantee a draw".
Now what I'm really curious about is given the complex nature of chess (there are more possible positions than the number of atoms in the universe), will it ever be solved? And if yes, when do you think chess will be solved?

Another question: What variants of chess, if any, have been solved?
An interesting thing to note that is in Atomic chess, back in the day, Stockfish would give a +3.0 advantage on the starting position (I don't know if it still does, I'm too lazy to find out lol). I would play a few games with it as black, and, predictably would get beaten, uh, quite roughly to put it. But, as white, I once managed to salvage a draw (lichess org/AdcIaY1hxpRD, please put the dot between 'lichess' and 'org' to see it). I don't think my play was the very best, but had it been Stockfish v Stockfish, would white always win? And in that case, would the result solve atomic chess (that particular variant)? Hypothetically, if I run analysis to depth 99, what would be the result?

Please post your thoughts on the topic, thanks

With reference from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game, "A solved game is a game whose outcome (win, lose or draw) can be correctly predicted from any position, assuming that both players play perfectly" and "In game theory, perfect play is the behavior or strategy of a player that leads to the best possible outcome for that player regardless of the response by the opponent." Popular games that have been 'strongly' solved include tic-tac-toe (intuitively guaranteed a draw on perfect play, though certain simple strategies can be used to confuse the opponent), Connect-4 (where the first player can force a win) and loads more, which you can check out in the Wikipedia link above. The article also states that 8x8 Draughts has also been solved, where, with perfect play, "both players can guarantee a draw". Now what I'm really curious about is given the complex nature of chess (there are more possible positions than the number of atoms in the universe), will it ever be solved? And if yes, when do you think chess will be solved? Another question: What variants of chess, if any, have been solved? An interesting thing to note that is in Atomic chess, back in the day, Stockfish would give a +3.0 advantage on the starting position (I don't know if it still does, I'm too lazy to find out lol). I would play a few games with it as black, and, predictably would get beaten, uh, quite roughly to put it. But, as white, I once managed to salvage a draw (lichess org/AdcIaY1hxpRD, please put the dot between 'lichess' and 'org' to see it). I don't think my play was the very best, but had it been Stockfish v Stockfish, would white always win? And in that case, would the result solve atomic chess (that particular variant)? Hypothetically, if I run analysis to depth 99, what would be the result? Please post your thoughts on the topic, thanks

First, I am glad you started with a definition otherwise people will just throw anything with their own definition of what solved means.

So sticking with the Wikipedia definition only for semantic sake, seeing the trends with AI and the future ahead with improvements in technology, my answer is yes. Probably, I'd say I am willing to be 99% it will be in the future. 1% because I can never be 100% certain.

First, I am glad you started with a definition otherwise people will just throw anything with their own definition of what solved means. So sticking with the Wikipedia definition only for semantic sake, seeing the trends with AI and the future ahead with improvements in technology, my answer is yes. Probably, I'd say I am willing to be 99% it will be in the future. 1% because I can never be 100% certain.

@Ayushman_C said in #1:

there are more possible positions than the number of atoms in the universe
Actually, there are fewer possible positions than the number of atoms on earth. So, at least, it could be possible to store the solution in a future computer memory.

@Ayushman_C said in #1: > there are more possible positions than the number of atoms in the universe Actually, there are fewer possible positions than the number of atoms on earth. So, at least, it could be possible to store the solution in a future computer memory.

I heard that chess is solved on Alpha Centauri but until we get there we can't know for sure.

I heard that chess is solved on Alpha Centauri but until we get there we can't know for sure.

Would be a nice aprils fool joke for lichess site: Chess is solved

Would be a nice aprils fool joke for lichess site: Chess is solved
<Comment deleted by user>

@Hagredion said in #4:

I heard that chess is solved on Alpha Centauri but until we get there we can't know for sure.

That is not quite correct, all the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at our local planning department in Alpha Centauri, according to Hitchikers guide to the galaxy. I guess Chess was solved at the origin planets of the mice.

@Hagredion said in #4: > I heard that chess is solved on Alpha Centauri but until we get there we can't know for sure. That is not quite correct, all the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at our local planning department in Alpha Centauri, according to Hitchikers guide to the galaxy. I guess Chess was solved at the origin planets of the mice.

@sheckley666 said in #3:

Actually, there are fewer possible positions than the number of atoms on earth. So, at least, it could be possible to store the solution in a future computer memory.
No it's not fewer

@sheckley666 said in #3: > Actually, there are fewer possible positions than the number of atoms on earth. So, at least, it could be possible to store the solution in a future computer memory. No it's not fewer

@dervidymart said in #8:

No it's not fewer
Yes, it is.
Upper bound for the number of chess positions is a little more than 10^46
(https://www.chessprogramming.org/Chess_Position)

Number of atoms on earth is around 10^50.

@dervidymart said in #8: > No it's not fewer Yes, it is. Upper bound for the number of chess positions is a little more than 10^46 (https://www.chessprogramming.org/Chess_Position) Number of atoms on earth is around 10^50.

@sheckley666 said in #9:

Yes, it is.
Upper bound for the number of chess positions is a little more than 10^46
(www.chessprogramming.org/Chess_Position)

Number of atoms on earth is around 10^50.
@sheckley666 said in #9:

Now google how many atoms are on Earth and how many possible chess positions exist

@sheckley666 said in #9: > Yes, it is. > Upper bound for the number of chess positions is a little more than 10^46 > (www.chessprogramming.org/Chess_Position) > > Number of atoms on earth is around 10^50. @sheckley666 said in #9: > Now google how many atoms are on Earth and how many possible chess positions exist

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.