Why is the Lichess Arena Tournament Pairing Algorithm so bad? • page 1/1 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

I'm told I'm an awful coder of games. My scripts are based on old open source php and javascripts scripts that is centuries old, buggy and laggy and is on a under powered server and I get all the feedback and criticism for the "retro" god awful code I wrote for puzzles. It's okay I deserve this "feedback".

Why on earth is Lichess code for Tournament pairings so so bad. You join a tournament and you wait so long to get paired, there is no feedback to us on how long it will take. The worst is when the tournament is coming towards an end but technically allows you to be paired as there is time for one more game but it doesn't pair you and the tournament ends.

Why is this so bad? We have good coders, not bad ones like me, and a state of the art servers not a free web domain like I use.

Please someone tell me first that they experience Arena tournament pairing as badly as me and why it is so.

I am prepared for the gaslighting that will come and the abuse of my own coding skills and app development skills but I think I've trashed them already so maybe you might look at Lichess Arena tournament pairing instead of attacking me lol

I'm told I'm an awful coder of games. My scripts are based on old open source php and javascripts scripts that is centuries old, buggy and laggy and is on a under powered server and I get all the feedback and criticism for the "retro" god awful code I wrote for puzzles. It's okay I deserve this "feedback". Why on earth is Lichess code for Tournament pairings so so bad. You join a tournament and you wait so long to get paired, there is no feedback to us on how long it will take. The worst is when the tournament is coming towards an end but technically allows you to be paired as there is time for one more game but it doesn't pair you and the tournament ends. Why is this so bad? We have good coders, not bad ones like me, and a state of the art servers not a free web domain like I use. Please someone tell me first that they experience Arena tournament pairing as badly as me and why it is so. I am prepared for the gaslighting that will come and the abuse of my own coding skills and app development skills but I think I've trashed them already so maybe you might look at Lichess Arena tournament pairing instead of attacking me lol

MiauiKatze

#2

I may be wrong, but I think I remember something about this:

The pairing algorithm is executed once a bit of time goes by since the last time (about 30-60 sec).
Te algorithm doesn’t want you to play the same opponents several time. It waits until someone you didn’t play against is ready to be paired up.
It wants you to pair with someone in your ranking position range. It will rather wait a while than pairing you with someone hundreds of places better than you. It extends the range as time goes by.

In big tournaments, pairing goes quite fast.

I might be wrong, but I think it runs as I stated.

I may be wrong, but I think I remember something about this: 1. The pairing algorithm is executed once a bit of time goes by since the last time (about 30-60 sec). 2. Te algorithm doesn’t want you to play the same opponents several time. It waits until someone you didn’t play against is ready to be paired up. 3. It wants you to pair with someone in your ranking position range. It will rather wait a while than pairing you with someone hundreds of places better than you. It extends the range as time goes by. In big tournaments, pairing goes quite fast. I might be wrong, but I think it runs as I stated.

michuk

#3

So bear with me then @MiauiKatze are you saying the Lichess Arena Tournament pairing algorithm is rubbish on purpose?

Hitsugaya

#4

I don't see your issues, it's pretty fast imo.

I still think it's not perfect and the rating of opponents is not always on par with one performance but at least it's fast.

You play in classical tournaments?

I don't see your issues, it's pretty fast imo. I still think it's not perfect and the rating of opponents is not always on par with one performance but at least it's fast. You play in classical tournaments?

MiauiKatze

#5

@michuk said in #3:

So bear with me then @MiauiKatze are you saying the Lichess Arena Tournament pairing algorithm is rubbish on purpose?

Yes.
Otherwise, it wouldn’t be faster and would use unnecessary resources on the server.
It may happen that something changes within 1 sec, but it’s not that often. So rather run it every 20-30 seconds, it is still pretty fast and only uses 3% of the resources...

@michuk said in #3: > So bear with me then @MiauiKatze are you saying the Lichess Arena Tournament pairing algorithm is rubbish on purpose? Yes. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be faster and would use unnecessary resources on the server. It may happen that something changes within 1 sec, but it’s not that often. So rather run it every 20-30 seconds, it is still pretty fast and only uses 3% of the resources...

Magdiragdag

#6

So, @michuk, what kind of pairing algorithm do you have in mind? Or are you complaining about the code and not the actual methodology?

Hitsugaya

#7

@MiauiKatze said in #5:

Yes.
Otherwise, it wouldn’t be faster and would use unnecessary resources on the server.
It may happen that something changes within 1 sec, but it’s not that often. So rather run it every 20-30 seconds, it is still pretty fast and only uses 3% of the resources...

Are you sure of what you're saying ? If the algorithm is run every 20s and I'm playing an ultrabullet tournament it would mean I'd randomly have to wait the full length of a game which is just not true.

In ultrabullet tournaments I never had to wait more than 5s and even that is pretty rare.

@MiauiKatze said in #5: > Yes. > Otherwise, it wouldn’t be faster and would use unnecessary resources on the server. > It may happen that something changes within 1 sec, but it’s not that often. So rather run it every 20-30 seconds, it is still pretty fast and only uses 3% of the resources... Are you sure of what you're saying ? If the algorithm is run every 20s and I'm playing an ultrabullet tournament it would mean I'd randomly have to wait the full length of a game which is just not true. In ultrabullet tournaments I never had to wait more than 5s and even that is pretty rare.

MiauiKatze

#8

@Hitsugaya said in #7:

Are you sure of what you're saying ? If the algorithm is run every 20s and I'm playing an ultrabullet tournament it would mean I'd randomly have to wait the full length of a game which is just not true.

In ultrabullet tournaments I never had to wait more than 5s and even that is pretty rare.

No, I am not sure about what I am saying, as I stated earlier.

Probably the execution intervals depends on the play time. If you play ultra bullet then maybe it is executed more often than in classical tournaments

@Hitsugaya said in #7: > Are you sure of what you're saying ? If the algorithm is run every 20s and I'm playing an ultrabullet tournament it would mean I'd randomly have to wait the full length of a game which is just not true. > > In ultrabullet tournaments I never had to wait more than 5s and even that is pretty rare. No, I am not sure about what I am saying, as I stated earlier. Probably the execution intervals depends on the play time. If you play ultra bullet then maybe it is executed more often than in classical tournaments

Alakaluf

#9

I don't believe server resources are a reason for running a pairing algorithm only every 20-30 seconds or so. Cannot be. Because how many arenas are running concurrently? Not many. How much of the server resources would be needed to run such a pairing thing every second instead of every 20 seconds? Nil. Zilch. Nothing, compared to the whole of the server resources.

Toadofsky

edited

#10

Guys, details happen to be important here.

https://playstrategy.org/blog/YzSJKhIAAFRRGJ8y/bots-are-joining-tournaments explains a patch for the situation OP is likely asking about.

But also it's possible he's referring to the UI in general being unclear, even for massively popular tournaments. Although for non-Swiss tournaments across all online & offline games (not just chess), Lichess could seek to improve UI responsiveness by indicating as he suggests predicted wait time until the next games become available.

Some players will point out that for arenas with an increment wait times may be less predictable than for other arenas, since there is a variance in game duration caused by increments.

Guys, details happen to be important here. https://playstrategy.org/blog/YzSJKhIAAFRRGJ8y/bots-are-joining-tournaments explains a patch for the situation OP is likely asking about. But also it's possible he's referring to the UI in general being unclear, even for massively popular tournaments. Although for non-Swiss tournaments across all online & offline games (not just chess), Lichess could seek to improve UI responsiveness by indicating as he suggests predicted wait time until the next games become available. Some players will point out that for arenas with an increment wait times may be less predictable than for other arenas, since there is a variance in game duration caused by increments.