What is your experience with takebacks?

@Onyx_Chess said in #39:

There is a very good reason that I've never seen a player intend to trade queens and then accidentally drop it a square short in an OTB tournament. The reason that this doesn't happen is because it would devalue chess and make it irritating to play.

Indeed. Mouse slips are the equivalent of unintentionally tipping over a piece with your arm while grabbing another piece. And "touch move" simply does not apply here.

I was going to say that people opposed to legit take backs play for rating only, but then realized that NoFlaps plays only unrated... now that's disturbing. :-)

When I accept a takeback, I dont like when the player doesnt say "thanks". This is something I can t understand.

Takeback was totally a scam

I started out trying to be the good sportsman etc and allowing take backs for slips.

But I had several incidents where I would allow a takeback and then be denied one later in the game. Absolutely infuriating and led me to turn them off altogether. Occasionally I feel a bit guilty when there is an obvious slip (castling is the usual culprit) but that is balanced out as I make a fair few slips myself.

@ThunderClap said in #29:

@Overcooker Takebacks are about misclicks & are usually ignored even then' . You cannot for example grant a 'takeback' in an over the board rated game it's illegal
@Onyx_Chess said in #39:
@ThunderClap #29

The exact same people who invented the touch-move rule for OTB chess also invented the takeback rule for online chess, for the exact same reason, and to serve the exact same purpose.

You're correct.
They are fundamentally the same thing, but not in the way that you are positing.

There is a very good reason that I've never seen a player intend to trade queens and then accidentally drop it a square short in an OTB tournament. The reason that this doesn't happen is because it would devalue chess and make it irritating to play.

People would quickly give up chess if random accidents routinely destroyed perfectly good chess games.
We'd want to be rid of these kinds of accidents so that we could move away from non-chess, and towards chess, in order to improve the game.

Just as we saw a problem occurring in OTB play where people touching pieces and putting them back became an issue and we made a rule to prevent the drawback of this activity...so it is with the unfortunate drawbacks of playing chess online where other instances can destroy the experience.

Both rules were made by the exact same people, for the exact same reason, and to serve the exact same ends.

We used to only move up one square, and decided that pawns should move up 2 instead.
We tried that for a bit, realized that there were some challenges with it, and so we invented an en passant rule.
We realized that being allowed an infinite amount of time produced drawbacks, and so we invented the clock.

All of these things, and many more, were invented by the exact same people, for the exact same reason, and in order to serve the exact same ends.

When all the chips are down, "non-moves should be allowed/encouraged/normalized/chosen/preferred" is not a hill that any chess player would die on. Nobody thinks that chess works better that way.

Imagine if you were in an afterlife, looking for a game of chess, and in every game of chess you played your opponent accidentally made a non-move that you were obligated to take advantage of.

Imagine that you couldn't help but "win" every single game of chess that you played in your afterlife due to this bizarre happenstance.

How long would you enjoy the game for?
Would you wake up every morning rushing to go "win" some more games of chess?
Or would your chess experience be destroyed by non-moves?
Would you miss playing chess and invent a takeback rule so that you could finally enjoy a perfectly good game of chess again?

Across the last several months, my opponents and I have been making excellent use of the takeback feature.

Of about 20 instances, I believe that 100% of my opponents had the feature enabled and it was used to good success.

Note: This case was made with Classical/Rapid time controls in mind.
Note: This case was made with obvious non-moves in mind.
@ThunderClap said in #27:
@Overcooker You BLUNDERED then had the 'nerve' to ask for a takeback ? REALLY ? Wow / Then got mad at the other player yikes'

@nadjarostowa notices (with reasonable although not absolute accuracy) that "NoFlaps plays only unrated... now that's disturbing. :-) "

Don't be disturbed!

There are good reasons for my playing mostly unrated:

1. My internet drops me several times a day, leading to scrambles (sometimes unsuccessful) to get back in time to avoid a forfeit.

2. I've played rated for * decades * and it interests me much less than it used to do. From time to time I check my "performance rating" mathematically to make sure I am not yet senile, and that provides sufficient comfort. But for the most part I play unconcerned with rating, and thereby stress-free and in good humor.

As for "giving takebacks" -- whatever feels good, do it! (In this context, at least -- not necessarily in all contexts).

As for those who want to give takebacks, I will not belittle you! But I neither give them nor ask for them. And evermore shall it be thus.

I will not waste much time arguing about it, and I will not spend clock time trying to assess the nature of the move that caused a takeback request. Only a fraction come from actual mouseslips. Of that I am quite certain. And, frankly, if you feel compelled to excuse careless mouse-handling, why not give a takeback to those who hang their queens from inattention? Or who make a move that overlooks an obvious fork? Aren't those unintentional, obvious, game-ending mistakes as well? Do taking advantage of those mistakes not likewise "cheapen" the game?

You ladies and gentlemen who are takeback-bestowing may not be considering the math, however: if you do not dependably GET clemency from others when you mouse-slip (and you probably don't get that), but you GIVE clemency dependably, then you are skewing the odds and the game against yourself, and saddling yourself with an artificially lower rating.

So if you DO care about your rating, you are doing yourself a disservice. (And arguably tainting the ratings pool.)

If you feel you must bestow mulligans, then by all means I won't criticize you. And may I suggest that you might enjoy living in San Francisco or Seattle? I believe those cities have a similar governing philosophy.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go make sure that Tiny Tim Cratchit intends to work this Christmas Eve.

Oh, yes, the takebacks:

Sometimes I really have had problems with internet or I slipped or klicked wrong. Have been very glad to have become a takeback.

If I do not get the takeback, I write, that I not wanna be asked for a takeback later. Mostly the opponent gives a takeback then, what can open a nice conversation.

If not giving a takeback, I block him/ her, because I not wanna play with not warm hearted and uncomprehending people.

Winning is not all, we are community. :)

Which side are you on. Would you grant takeback when it comes to the occasional Kf1/Kf8 castling mouseslip

I would rather not allow it, but along with the "offer draw" it is a grey area. Games of chess for esthetic reasons are dying out, in a casual game I would accept them taking a very bad move back but never in a rated game. I've seen some high rated games here with take backs and to me it reeked of collusion.
I've played several "fools" in games they blunder ask then for a draw, when I decline; let the time run out wasting my time, this is actually cheating. They could just ask to take back and play on, so it is useful in a casual game. But, rated games never otherwise the rating means nothing, when you play a rated game it is serious otherwise you don't need casual.
But I do suggest taking back in games against a computer if you are practicing.

@Nordlandia said in #48:

Which side are you on. Would you grant takeback when it comes to the occasional Kf1/Kf8 castling mouseslip

I think mouse slips are part of the game. Of course, sometimes I would allow takebacks, but I feel like no one should expect to get a takeback for mouse slips. If I mouse slip, I either play on or resign if it's a really bad misclick.

Of course, in casual games or games against friends, I allow takebacks.

But if you play a rated game, I think it should be expected that there will be no takebacks :)