What is the best opening for intermediate levels like me?

Does "another" mean an alternative to 1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 ... as played in the 15+10 lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP
game about 3 days ago?
Yes.

@kindaspongey said in #4: > Does "another" mean an alternative to 1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 ... as played in the 15+10 lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP > game about 3 days ago? Yes.

kindaspongey

#12

Well, do you have any thoughts about what you are looking for?
Another low-theory option:
(Colle, King's Indian Attack, some English lines, etc.)
More experience in tactical lines:
(1 e4)
More mainstream 1 d4 lines:
(1 d4 and 2 c4)

Well, do you have any thoughts about what you are looking for? Another low-theory option: (Colle, King's Indian Attack, some English lines, etc.) More experience in tactical lines: (1 e4) More mainstream 1 d4 lines: (1 d4 and 2 c4)

LarryWest

#13

Sorry, to be kind of rude, but 1000 is not intermediate level. The rating distribution on lichess peaks at roughly 1500.
I think the opening on your level is definitely not the most important. I would stick to the basic openings at this level, Italian and Spanish or Queen's Gambit depending on your prefrence towards e4/d4. I would rather focus to build knowledge depending on that choice and analyze all your games and check where you usually go wrong. I know this was said a hundred times: If you want to improve, and I think this is the root of the question for the "best" opening, you should work on your fundamentals. Therefore I advise to play slower games (at least 5+3) and take the time to really look deep into your games. No opening will help you improve, if you are not willing to study it extensively. Additionally, a lot of people might not know the correct answer to your opening and you need also to know, why this answer is not correct and you need knowledge how to punish such answers.

Sorry, to be kind of rude, but 1000 is not intermediate level. The rating distribution on lichess peaks at roughly 1500. I think the opening on your level is definitely not the most important. I would stick to the basic openings at this level, Italian and Spanish or Queen's Gambit depending on your prefrence towards e4/d4. I would rather focus to build knowledge depending on that choice and analyze all your games and check where you usually go wrong. I know this was said a hundred times: If you want to improve, and I think this is the root of the question for the "best" opening, you should work on your fundamentals. Therefore I advise to play slower games (at least 5+3) and take the time to really look deep into your games. No opening will help you improve, if you are not willing to study it extensively. Additionally, a lot of people might not know the correct answer to your opening and you need also to know, why this answer is not correct and you need knowledge how to punish such answers.

kindaspongey edited

#14

@LarryWest said in #13:

Sorry, to be kind of rude, but 1000 is not intermediate level. ... I think the opening on your level is definitely not the most important. ...
As I read it, in the 15+10
https://lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP

game about 4 days ago, Emerald-star123’s rating was given as 1551. By that point, Emerald-star123 might understandably want to explore 1 e4 or 1 d4, followed by 2 c4. Of course, there are lots of alternatives.
@LarryWest said in #13:
... No opening will help you improve, if you are not willing to study it extensively. Additionally, a lot of people might not know the correct answer to your opening and you need also to know, why this answer is not correct and you need knowledge how to punish such answers.
There seem to be other points of view:
"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

@LarryWest said in #13: > Sorry, to be kind of rude, but 1000 is not intermediate level. ... I think the opening on your level is definitely not the most important. ... As I read it, in the 15+10 https://lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP game about 4 days ago, Emerald-star123’s rating was given as 1551. By that point, Emerald-star123 might understandably want to explore 1 e4 or 1 d4, followed by 2 c4. Of course, there are lots of alternatives. @LarryWest said in #13: > ... No opening will help you improve, if you are not willing to study it extensively. Additionally, a lot of people might not know the correct answer to your opening and you need also to know, why this answer is not correct and you need knowledge how to punish such answers. There seem to be other points of view: "... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

LarryWest

#15

@kindaspongey said in #14:

As I read it, in the 15+10 lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP
game about 4 days ago, Emerald-star123’s rating was given as 1551. By that point, Emerald-star123 might understandably want to explore 1 e4 or 1 d4, followed by 2 c4. Of course, there are lots of alternatives.

He or she might be better in Rapid, but the rating is still provisional and I doubt, that the Rapid rating will suddenly 500 points above of his/her Blitz rating, espacially as mainly 5+3 was played.

@kindaspongey said in #14:

There seem to be other points of view:
"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

That just underlines my point. Knowing some basic piece placement and ideas is NOT the same as studying an opening. If someone really wants to "win" with the opening choice, it is really necessary to know the ins and outs of the opening. No one, even players of a much higher level, will find everything in a 15 minute game (or even less time). And that is just fine, but I think it is really dishonest to tell beginner players to play this or that opening and they will just do better. They just need to work on other aspects of the game first and therefore it is sensible to play openings that just follow the basic principles, so that they do not have to worry about advanced ideas or find themself in messy positions. At the point the improved there is the right time to think about opening choice.

And all FMs, IMs and GMs I know, tell the same story: Focus on the opening once you are ready to do so, but this time will be once a player is already above average. Here the masters name different ratings, also depeding on the plattform, but for Lichess it is rather above 1600. On the other hand there are a thousand videos out there promising "CRUSH EVERYONE BY PLAYING THIS OPENING" but this is just a lie with the aim to get some viewers.

And some final remarks: Chess is game that should be fun, because 99,9% of the players, including myself, will never earn a single dime playing it. And on one will be a better person no matter how good they are at chess. But speaking from one chess player to another: If you want to improve, you should focus on the right things. And at Emerald-star123’s level that does not include openings, but avoiding one move blunders, finding basic tactics and mating patterns and trying to grasp the up- and down-sides of the own and the opponent's pawn structure.

@kindaspongey said in #14: > As I read it, in the 15+10 lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP > game about 4 days ago, Emerald-star123’s rating was given as 1551. By that point, Emerald-star123 might understandably want to explore 1 e4 or 1 d4, followed by 2 c4. Of course, there are lots of alternatives. He or she might be better in Rapid, but the rating is still provisional and I doubt, that the Rapid rating will suddenly 500 points above of his/her Blitz rating, espacially as mainly 5+3 was played. @kindaspongey said in #14: > There seem to be other points of view: > "... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008) That just underlines my point. Knowing some basic piece placement and ideas is NOT the same as studying an opening. If someone really wants to "win" with the opening choice, it is really necessary to know the ins and outs of the opening. No one, even players of a much higher level, will find everything in a 15 minute game (or even less time). And that is just fine, but I think it is really dishonest to tell beginner players to play this or that opening and they will just do better. They just need to work on other aspects of the game first and therefore it is sensible to play openings that just follow the basic principles, so that they do not have to worry about advanced ideas or find themself in messy positions. At the point the improved there is the right time to think about opening choice. And all FMs, IMs and GMs I know, tell the same story: Focus on the opening once you are ready to do so, but this time will be once a player is already above average. Here the masters name different ratings, also depeding on the plattform, but for Lichess it is rather above 1600. On the other hand there are a thousand videos out there promising "CRUSH EVERYONE BY PLAYING THIS OPENING" but this is just a lie with the aim to get some viewers. And some final remarks: Chess is game that should be fun, because 99,9% of the players, including myself, will never earn a single dime playing it. And on one will be a better person no matter how good they are at chess. But speaking from one chess player to another: If you want to improve, you should focus on the right things. And at Emerald-star123’s level that does not include openings, but avoiding one move blunders, finding basic tactics and mating patterns and trying to grasp the up- and down-sides of the own and the opponent's pawn structure.

Rabergsel

#16

You could go to the opening explorer and set the opening book to your games specifically. There you'll have a list of all games and the win percentages. Then this isn't only for your rating group in general, but specifically for you :D

mkubecek

#17

@Rabergsel said in #16:

You could go to the opening explorer and set the opening book to your games specifically. There you'll have a list of all games and the win percentages. Then this isn't only for your rating group in general, but specifically for you :D
This can be a bit misleading as opening choice can be quite different for weaker and stronger players. For example, I have a surprisingly good success rate against Pirc on lichess but most of those games were against weaker opponents. On the other hand, most of my games against Spanish (Ruy Lopez) or some Sicilan variations were against stronger opponents which reflects on my success rate.

@Rabergsel said in #16: > You could go to the opening explorer and set the opening book to your games specifically. There you'll have a list of all games and the win percentages. Then this isn't only for your rating group in general, but specifically for you :D This can be a bit misleading as opening choice can be quite different for weaker and stronger players. For example, I have a surprisingly good success rate against Pirc on lichess but most of those games were against weaker opponents. On the other hand, most of my games against Spanish (Ruy Lopez) or some Sicilan variations were against stronger opponents which reflects on my success rate.

SimonBirch

#18

@Emerald-star123 said in #1:

I'm looking for another opening to play? What openings do you think are the best for intermediate players like me? Please share your thoughts.
The same openings noobs and grandmasters play, what is this question , even? xxx

@Emerald-star123 said in #1: > I'm looking for another opening to play? What openings do you think are the best for intermediate players like me? Please share your thoughts. The same openings noobs and grandmasters play, what is this question , even? xxx

RamblinDave

#19

Couple of thoughts.

Firstly, my spicy take is that people get overexcited about certain openings being "not suitable for beginners / intermediate players" and I don't think it makes as much difference as they think. In practice if you try to play something like the Grunfeld or the Sveshnikov as a beginner then you're more likely to end up out of theory on move seven than getting crushed by a prepared sacrifice on move 12.

Secondly, IMO it's helpful to think "what is my repertoire" rather than "what opening do I play". As in, you probably want to have an idea of what you play as white. If you go for 1 e4, that'll mean having some idea of what sort of setup you go for against (say) 1... e5, 1... c5, and maybe 1... d6, 1... c6 and 1... e6. That doesn't mean knowing a whole load of concrete lines, but having an idea of what sort of thing is likely to happen, like having seen the idea that in the French you might get something like 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 after which white will be trying to maintain their central pawns to stop the opponent developing comfortably while black will be trying to tie them down by pressuring the pawn on d4. Similarly, you want to have some idea of what you do as black against 1 d4 (including the London) and 1 e4, but again, this can be more like a sketch map than comprehensive instructions.

Thirdly, don't overprepare. Use the opening explorer to see what positions you're actually going to see regularly, use analysis of your games to see which positions you get into where you need more preparation and which ones you're actually getting on fine with. For instance, you might find that playing 1 e4 you get along fine playing a closed Sicilian against 1... c5 despite knowing no theory beyond move three, you've heard there are some scary sidelines for black against your choice of 1 e4 e5 opening but you basically never see them and get on okay in practice, but when your opponent plays the Caro, which happens fairly often, you always seem to get into trouble. In that case you might want to spend a bit of time checking what you're meant to do against the Caro rather than worrying about the other stuff. And if you don't have an obvious problem then just go and do something other than openings.

Couple of thoughts. Firstly, my spicy take is that people get overexcited about certain openings being "not suitable for beginners / intermediate players" and I don't think it makes as much difference as they think. In practice if you try to play something like the Grunfeld or the Sveshnikov as a beginner then you're more likely to end up out of theory on move seven than getting crushed by a prepared sacrifice on move 12. Secondly, IMO it's helpful to think "what is my repertoire" rather than "what opening do I play". As in, you probably want to have an idea of what you play as white. If you go for 1 e4, that'll mean having some idea of what sort of setup you go for against (say) 1... e5, 1... c5, and maybe 1... d6, 1... c6 and 1... e6. That doesn't mean knowing a whole load of concrete lines, but having an idea of what sort of thing is likely to happen, like having seen the idea that in the French you might get something like 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 after which white will be trying to maintain their central pawns to stop the opponent developing comfortably while black will be trying to tie them down by pressuring the pawn on d4. Similarly, you want to have some idea of what you do as black against 1 d4 (including the London) and 1 e4, but again, this can be more like a sketch map than comprehensive instructions. Thirdly, don't overprepare. Use the opening explorer to see what positions you're actually going to see regularly, use analysis of your games to see which positions you get into where you need more preparation and which ones you're actually getting on fine with. For instance, you might find that playing 1 e4 you get along fine playing a closed Sicilian against 1... c5 despite knowing no theory beyond move three, you've heard there are some scary sidelines for black against your choice of 1 e4 e5 opening but you basically never see them and get on okay in practice, but when your opponent plays the Caro, which happens fairly often, you always seem to get into trouble. In that case you might want to spend a bit of time checking what you're meant to do against the Caro rather than worrying about the other stuff. And if you don't have an obvious problem then just go and do something other than openings.

kindaspongey edited

#20

@Emerald-star123 said in #1:

I'm looking for another opening to play? What openings do you think are the best for intermediate players like me? Please share your thoughts.
@LarryWest said in #13:
Sorry, to be kind of rude, but 1000 is not intermediate level. ...
@kindaspongey said in #14:
As I read it, in the 15+10
https://lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP

game about 4 days ago, Emerald-star123’s rating was given as 1551. ...
@LarryWest said in #15:
... He or she might be better in Rapid, but the rating is still provisional and I doubt, that the Rapid rating will suddenly 500 points above of his/her Blitz rating, espacially as mainly 5+3 was played. ...
What is being alleged to have happened "suddenly" here?
15+10 1500-->1623 2025.04.27
https://lichess.org/AfjQJrHA

15+10 1623-->1735 2025.05.01
https://lichess.org/wvTUhcIA

15+10 1735-->1551 2025.05.31
https://lichess.org/l1MZ7KpK

15+10 1551-->1467 2025.05.31
https://lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP

15+10 1467-->1567 2025.06.01
https://lichess.org/41Ct6swV

15+10 1567-->1563 2025.06.02
https://lichess.org/Xg3oIqYj

15+10 1563-->1510 2025.06.04
https://lichess.org/f54KtxK8

@LarryWest said in #13:
... No opening will help you improve, if you are not willing to study it extensively. Additionally, a lot of people might not know the correct answer to your opening and you need also to know, why this answer is not correct and you need knowledge how to punish such answers.
@kindaspongey said in #14:
There seem to be other points of view:
"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)
@LarryWest said in #15:
... If someone really wants to "win" with the opening choice, it is really necessary to know the ins and outs of the opening. ...
Where, in this discussion, did Emerald-star123 propose to "win" with the opening choice?
@LarryWest said in #15:
... I think it is really dishonest to tell beginner players to play this or that opening and they will just do better. ...
Where, in this discussion, were beginner players told "to play this or that opening and they will just do better"?
@LarryWest said in #15:
... it is sensible to play openings that just follow the basic principles, so that they do not have to worry about advanced ideas or find themself in messy positions.
Isn't that advice about opening choice?
@LarryWest said in #15:
At the point the improved there is the right time to think about opening choice.
And all FMs, IMs and GMs I know, tell the same story: Focus on the opening once you are ready to do so, but this time will be once a player is already above average. ...
"... you must choose what openings you will be using. ..." - Journey to the Chess Kingdom, a book for beginners by Yuri Averbakh and Mikhail Beilin
@LarryWest said in #15:
... If you want to improve, you should focus on the right things. And at Emerald-star123’s level that does not include openings, but avoiding one move blunders, finding basic tactics and mating patterns and trying to grasp the up- and down-sides of the own and the opponent's pawn structure.
"... The game might be divided into three parts, i.e.:- 1. The opening. 2. The middle-game. 3. The end-game. There is one thing you must strive for, to be equally efficient in the three parts. Whether you are a strong or a weak player, you should try to be of equal strength in the three parts. ..." - from Capablanca's book, My Chess Career
"... I am not a big fan of weaker players memorizing lots of opening lines they will never play. However, it is quite a different issue to spend a small amount of time learning how to play your openings a little better each time they occur. A long journey begins with a single step. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2005)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627023809/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman50.pdf
"... Review each of your games, identifying opening (and other) mistakes with the goal of not repeatedly making the same mistake. ... It is especially critical not to continually fall into opening traps – or even lines that result in difficult positions ... Read many annotated game collections ... By looking at entire games, the aspiring player learns about openings, middlegames, and endgames all at one fell swoop. Playing through annotated games spurs improvement as the reader learns how good players consistently handle common positions and problems. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2007)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627062646/https://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman81.pdf

@Emerald-star123 said in #1: > I'm looking for another opening to play? What openings do you think are the best for intermediate players like me? Please share your thoughts. @LarryWest said in #13: > Sorry, to be kind of rude, but 1000 is not intermediate level. ... @kindaspongey said in #14: > As I read it, in the 15+10 https://lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP > game about 4 days ago, Emerald-star123’s rating was given as 1551. ... @LarryWest said in #15: > ... He or she might be better in Rapid, but the rating is still provisional and I doubt, that the Rapid rating will suddenly 500 points above of his/her Blitz rating, espacially as mainly 5+3 was played. ... What is being alleged to have happened "suddenly" here? 15+10 1500-->1623 2025.04.27 https://lichess.org/AfjQJrHA 15+10 1623-->1735 2025.05.01 https://lichess.org/wvTUhcIA 15+10 1735-->1551 2025.05.31 https://lichess.org/l1MZ7KpK 15+10 1551-->1467 2025.05.31 https://lichess.org/Dsj0QRKP 15+10 1467-->1567 2025.06.01 https://lichess.org/41Ct6swV 15+10 1567-->1563 2025.06.02 https://lichess.org/Xg3oIqYj 15+10 1563-->1510 2025.06.04 https://lichess.org/f54KtxK8 @LarryWest said in #13: > ... No opening will help you improve, if you are not willing to study it extensively. Additionally, a lot of people might not know the correct answer to your opening and you need also to know, why this answer is not correct and you need knowledge how to punish such answers. @kindaspongey said in #14: > There seem to be other points of view: > "... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008) @LarryWest said in #15: > ... If someone really wants to "win" with the opening choice, it is really necessary to know the ins and outs of the opening. ... Where, in this discussion, did Emerald-star123 propose to "win" with the opening choice? @LarryWest said in #15: > ... I think it is really dishonest to tell beginner players to play this or that opening and they will just do better. ... Where, in this discussion, were beginner players told "to play this or that opening and they will just do better"? @LarryWest said in #15: > ... it is sensible to play openings that just follow the basic principles, so that they do not have to worry about advanced ideas or find themself in messy positions. Isn't that advice about opening choice? @LarryWest said in #15: > At the point the improved there is the right time to think about opening choice. > And all FMs, IMs and GMs I know, tell the same story: Focus on the opening once you are ready to do so, but this time will be once a player is already above average. ... "... you must choose what openings you will be using. ..." - Journey to the Chess Kingdom, a book for beginners by Yuri Averbakh and Mikhail Beilin @LarryWest said in #15: > ... If you want to improve, you should focus on the right things. And at Emerald-star123’s level that does not include openings, but avoiding one move blunders, finding basic tactics and mating patterns and trying to grasp the up- and down-sides of the own and the opponent's pawn structure. "... The game might be divided into three parts, i.e.:- 1. The opening. 2. The middle-game. 3. The end-game. There is one thing you must strive for, to be equally efficient in the three parts. Whether you are a strong or a weak player, you should try to be of equal strength in the three parts. ..." - from Capablanca's book, My Chess Career "... I am not a big fan of weaker players memorizing lots of opening lines they will never play. However, it is quite a different issue to spend a small amount of time learning how to play your openings a little better each time they occur. A long journey begins with a single step. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2005) https://web.archive.org/web/20140627023809/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman50.pdf "... Review each of your games, identifying opening (and other) mistakes with the goal of not repeatedly making the same mistake. ... It is especially critical not to continually fall into opening traps – or even lines that result in difficult positions ... Read many annotated game collections ... By looking at entire games, the aspiring player learns about openings, middlegames, and endgames all at one fell swoop. Playing through annotated games spurs improvement as the reader learns how good players consistently handle common positions and problems. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2007) https://web.archive.org/web/20140627062646/https://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman81.pdf

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