The way to become better as a 2000 level player? • page 1/1 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

I was mid reply to a 1900 rated player when the topic was closed for somebody advertising. Let's open a more genuine discussion here:

How does a class A-B player progress to mastery of chess? I think the following questions must all be "yes answers"

Do they know how to use a database?
Do they have a source of new information?
Do they have a way to sift their own game data to find macro and micro problems?
Do they have a place to perform what is being learned? (think tournament or high pressure public situations)

The progress process at this level is cyclical in nature. Hypothesize > Learn > Perform > Analyze > Repeat

What do you think it takes for a player rated 2000 to improve?

I was mid reply to a 1900 rated player when the topic was closed for somebody advertising. Let's open a more genuine discussion here: How does a class A-B player progress to mastery of chess? I think the following questions must all be "yes answers" Do they know how to use a database? Do they have a source of new information? Do they have a way to sift their own game data to find macro and micro problems? Do they have a place to perform what is being learned? (think tournament or high pressure public situations) The progress process at this level is cyclical in nature. Hypothesize > Learn > Perform > Analyze > Repeat What do you think it takes for a player rated 2000 to improve?

Move_In_Silence_2024

#3

2000 lichess or 2000 fide?

kindaspongey

#4

"... going from good at tactics to great at tactics ... doesn't translate into much greater strength. ... You need a relatively good memory to reach average strength. But a much better memory isn't going to make you a master. ... there's a powerful law of diminishing returns in chess calculation, ... Your rating may have been steadily rising when suddenly it stops. ... One explanation for the wall is that most players got to where they are by learning how to not lose. ... Mastering chess ... requires a new set of skills and traits. ... Many of these attributes are kinds of know-how, such as understanding when to change the pawn structure or what a positionally won game looks like and how to deal with it. Some are habits, like always looking for targets. Others are refined senses, like recognizing a critical middlegame moment or feeling when time is on your side and when it isn't. ..." - What It Takes to Become a Chess Master by GM Andrew Soltis (2012)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708093409/https://www.chesscafe.com/text/review857.pdf

"... On the one hand, your play needs to be purposeful much of the time; the ability to navigate through many different types of positions needs to be yours; your ability to calculate variations and find candidate moves needs to be present in at least an embryonic stage. On the other hand, it will be heart-warming and perhaps inspiring to realize that you do not need to give up blunders or misconceptions or a poor memory or sloppy calculating habits; that you do not need to know all the latest opening variations, or even know what they are called. You do not have to memorize hundreds of endgame positions or instantly recognize the proper procedure in a variety of pawn structures.
[To play at a master level consistently] is not an easy task, to be sure ..., but it is a possible one. ..." - Reaching the Top?! by NM Peter Kurzdorfer (2015)
https://web.archive.org/web/20220625175407/https://www.jeremysilman.com/book-review/reaching-the-top/

"Every now and then someone advances the idea that one may gain success in chess by using shortcuts. 'Chess is 99% tactics' - proclaims one expert, suggesting that strategic understanding is overrated; 'Improvement in chess is all about opening knowledge' - declares another. A third self-appointed authority asserts that a thorough knowledge of endings is the key to becoming a master; while his expert-friend is puzzled by the mere thought that a player can achieve anything at all without championing pawn structures.
To me, such statements seem futile. You can't hope to gain mastery of any subject by specializing in only parts of it. ..." - Chess Tips for the Improving Player by FM Amatzia Avni (2008)
https://qualitychess.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ChessTipsfortheImprovingPlayer-exceprt.pdf

"... going from good at tactics to great at tactics ... doesn't translate into much greater strength. ... You need a relatively good memory to reach average strength. But a much better memory isn't going to make you a master. ... there's a powerful law of diminishing returns in chess calculation, ... Your rating may have been steadily rising when suddenly it stops. ... One explanation for the wall is that most players got to where they are by learning how to not lose. ... Mastering chess ... requires a new set of skills and traits. ... Many of these attributes are kinds of know-how, such as understanding when to change the pawn structure or what a positionally won game looks like and how to deal with it. Some are habits, like always looking for targets. Others are refined senses, like recognizing a critical middlegame moment or feeling when time is on your side and when it isn't. ..." - What It Takes to Become a Chess Master by GM Andrew Soltis (2012) https://web.archive.org/web/20140708093409/https://www.chesscafe.com/text/review857.pdf "... On the one hand, your play needs to be purposeful much of the time; the ability to navigate through many different types of positions needs to be yours; your ability to calculate variations and find candidate moves needs to be present in at least an embryonic stage. On the other hand, it will be heart-warming and perhaps inspiring to realize that you do not need to give up blunders or misconceptions or a poor memory or sloppy calculating habits; that you do not need to know all the latest opening variations, or even know what they are called. You do not have to memorize hundreds of endgame positions or instantly recognize the proper procedure in a variety of pawn structures. [To play at a master level consistently] is not an easy task, to be sure ..., but it is a possible one. ..." - Reaching the Top?! by NM Peter Kurzdorfer (2015) https://web.archive.org/web/20220625175407/https://www.jeremysilman.com/book-review/reaching-the-top/ "Every now and then someone advances the idea that one may gain success in chess by using shortcuts. 'Chess is 99% tactics' - proclaims one expert, suggesting that strategic understanding is overrated; 'Improvement in chess is all about opening knowledge' - declares another. A third self-appointed authority asserts that a thorough knowledge of endings is the key to becoming a master; while his expert-friend is puzzled by the mere thought that a player can achieve anything at all without championing pawn structures. To me, such statements seem futile. You can't hope to gain mastery of any subject by specializing in only parts of it. ..." - Chess Tips for the Improving Player by FM Amatzia Avni (2008) https://qualitychess.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ChessTipsfortheImprovingPlayer-exceprt.pdf

bluezorro251

edited

#5

Using a database is one process. Other possible processes:
-> Review GM games.
-> Read chess books.
-> Puzzles (e.g. Lichess Puzzle Dashboard, Woodpecker Method).
-> Hire a coach.

Feedback on what to study would be helpful, and a database analysis could provide that. For example, the Lichess Puzzle Dashboard is useful, and it provides feedback on areas to train to "optimize your progress" (e.g. rook endgame, pin, checkmate). I haven't found a use for Lichess Chess Insights. It says about 11% of my moves have over 100 centipawn loss (CPL), but doesn't give any guidance on what to study. My games:

Game pctMoves pctMoves
Result >100CPL >200CPL
Victory 10% 4%
Defeat 15% 8%

Lichess uses changes in winning chances to classify moves. A 30% change (e.g. from 80% to 50%) is a Blunder; 20% is a Mistake, and 10% is an Inaccuracy. The mistake-o-tron website lists blunders and produces practice positions.

Puzzles can cover Tactics, Endgames, and Visualization. Openings and Strategy require other training methods (e.g. books or reviewing GM games). Blunders can be simple mistakes, or could be mostly unavoidable in complicated positions arising from a poor opening or strategy.

Some blogs:

How to Create Your Training Plan ?
Openings
Tactics
Strategy and Middlegame
Endgames
Visualization and Calculation
https://lichess.org/@/Sanchez_Louis/blog/how-to-create-your-training-plan-/kqLbU048

The 0.8% of Skills That Will Bring You 51.2% of the Benefit:
The Pin
The Fork
Checkmate in 1 or 2 Moves
These themes appear in almost every game. This is the foundation of chess. Train these techniques, and you will notice significant progress in your results on the board!
https://lichess.org/@/Gorenshteyn/blog/the-pareto-principle-in-chess-the-most-effective-exercises-for-progress/nhrh7LMz

Stop inventing, start copying !
Chess is one of the most complex games, and people have been studying it for centuries. Trying to understand the game by only playing and inventing will not bring you anywhere. You have to study plans and model games in order to find your path to victory.
https://lichess.org/@/SyltStonks/blog/stop-inventing-start-copying-/VQw6MCuG

Leveraging AI in Your Chess Journey
Query 1: What are the 10 most instructive chess games in the English opening?
Query 2: Provide a move by move detailed annotation of Botvinnik vs. Capablanca (AVRO, 1938) targeted for a player with a Lichess Rapid rating of 1470.
https://lichess.org/@/Chessdad1979/blog/leveraging-ai-in-your-chess-journey/XZMqMpM6

How to Stop Blundering in Chess: A Practical Guide
Before you make any move, ask yourself: Is my move safe? What is my opponent's threat? Does my move improve my position?
Learn to Recognize Tactical Patterns: Solve puzzles regularly. Review your games
https://lichess.org/@/UhTipy/blog/how-to-stop-blundering-in-chess-a-practical-guide/Pba7yvon

Using a database is one process. Other possible processes: -> Review GM games. -> Read chess books. -> Puzzles (e.g. Lichess Puzzle Dashboard, Woodpecker Method). -> Hire a coach. Feedback on what to study would be helpful, and a database analysis could provide that. For example, the Lichess Puzzle Dashboard is useful, and it provides feedback on areas to train to "optimize your progress" (e.g. rook endgame, pin, checkmate). I haven't found a use for Lichess Chess Insights. It says about 11% of my moves have over 100 centipawn loss (CPL), but doesn't give any guidance on what to study. My games: Game pctMoves pctMoves Result >100CPL >200CPL Victory 10% 4% Defeat 15% 8% Lichess uses changes in winning chances to classify moves. A 30% change (e.g. from 80% to 50%) is a Blunder; 20% is a Mistake, and 10% is an Inaccuracy. The mistake-o-tron website lists blunders and produces practice positions. Puzzles can cover Tactics, Endgames, and Visualization. Openings and Strategy require other training methods (e.g. books or reviewing GM games). Blunders can be simple mistakes, or could be mostly unavoidable in complicated positions arising from a poor opening or strategy. Some blogs: How to Create Your Training Plan ? Openings Tactics Strategy and Middlegame Endgames Visualization and Calculation https://lichess.org/@/Sanchez_Louis/blog/how-to-create-your-training-plan-/kqLbU048 The 0.8% of Skills That Will Bring You 51.2% of the Benefit: The Pin The Fork Checkmate in 1 or 2 Moves These themes appear in almost every game. This is the foundation of chess. Train these techniques, and you will notice significant progress in your results on the board! https://lichess.org/@/Gorenshteyn/blog/the-pareto-principle-in-chess-the-most-effective-exercises-for-progress/nhrh7LMz Stop inventing, start copying ! Chess is one of the most complex games, and people have been studying it for centuries. Trying to understand the game by only playing and inventing will not bring you anywhere. You have to study plans and model games in order to find your path to victory. https://lichess.org/@/SyltStonks/blog/stop-inventing-start-copying-/VQw6MCuG Leveraging AI in Your Chess Journey Query 1: What are the 10 most instructive chess games in the English opening? Query 2: Provide a move by move detailed annotation of Botvinnik vs. Capablanca (AVRO, 1938) targeted for a player with a Lichess Rapid rating of 1470. https://lichess.org/@/Chessdad1979/blog/leveraging-ai-in-your-chess-journey/XZMqMpM6 How to Stop Blundering in Chess: A Practical Guide Before you make any move, ask yourself: Is my move safe? What is my opponent's threat? Does my move improve my position? Learn to Recognize Tactical Patterns: Solve puzzles regularly. Review your games https://lichess.org/@/UhTipy/blog/how-to-stop-blundering-in-chess-a-practical-guide/Pba7yvon

yojoey

#6

I think it depends on what your goals are. I am a little bit lower rated than you, but I was stuck in the 1900s blitz for a year. I finally broke the barrier.

If your goals are to improve in classical time controls, your training may differ than if you are trying to improve in blitz. For me, I have no interest in playing classical games. I am an adult learner and blitz fits in more with my timeframe. My current goals are to improve in standard blitz and chess 960 blitz.

Until this year, I was self-taught. I decided to improve it was time to hire a coach to help me improve, since I felt like I had plateaued. The first coach I hired was very talented, but he was more classically oriented. I found him on the Lichess coaches page. https://lichess.org/coach. He coached me as if I was going to a classical tournament. So I looked for another chess coach.

A strong player on Lichess organized a casual chess 960 odds tournament. I privately messaged this player, since he did not have a coaching bio, or anything on his Lichess profile. I explained to him that I was looking to improve in chess 960 and blitz. I told him that I thought training games would be the most helpful for me. He agreed to coach me with training games. Our sessions are for two hours. The training games for 1 hour. The second hour consists of analysis of the training games (usually we play chess 960 games, which I found really helps my standard blitz). My coach moves our games into a Lichess study and we go over the games for the second hour. I have found this really helpful and I am thankful for his coaching.

Your mileage may vary, but this strategy has been helping me.

I think it depends on what your goals are. I am a little bit lower rated than you, but I was stuck in the 1900s blitz for a year. I finally broke the barrier. If your goals are to improve in classical time controls, your training may differ than if you are trying to improve in blitz. For me, I have no interest in playing classical games. I am an adult learner and blitz fits in more with my timeframe. My current goals are to improve in standard blitz and chess 960 blitz. Until this year, I was self-taught. I decided to improve it was time to hire a coach to help me improve, since I felt like I had plateaued. The first coach I hired was very talented, but he was more classically oriented. I found him on the Lichess coaches page. https://lichess.org/coach. He coached me as if I was going to a classical tournament. So I looked for another chess coach. A strong player on Lichess organized a casual chess 960 odds tournament. I privately messaged this player, since he did not have a coaching bio, or anything on his Lichess profile. I explained to him that I was looking to improve in chess 960 and blitz. I told him that I thought training games would be the most helpful for me. He agreed to coach me with training games. Our sessions are for two hours. The training games for 1 hour. The second hour consists of analysis of the training games (usually we play chess 960 games, which I found really helps my standard blitz). My coach moves our games into a Lichess study and we go over the games for the second hour. I have found this really helpful and I am thankful for his coaching. Your mileage may vary, but this strategy has been helping me.

crtex

#7

Big difference between 2000 online blitz/bullet or OTB. But I agree to all of the points except for the database part.

DrHack

#8

@crtex Can we assume that you look at better player's games somehow other than a database then?

crtex

#9

@DrHack said in #8:

@crtex Can we assume that you look at better player's games somehow other than a database then?

100%. It is absolutely essential to look at master level games in your openings of choice, so agreed there.

@DrHack said in #8: > @crtex Can we assume that you look at better player's games somehow other than a database then? 100%. It is absolutely essential to look at master level games in your openings of choice, so agreed there.

verylate

#9

I certainly don't know the answer, because 25 years ago that is where I was. And while my life has progressed in many different directions since then, my chess really hasn't. A few things come t mind though.

changing openings is often a door way to a new understanding of the middlegame. If you are getting stale, try something new and learn something new

Endgames are the most neglected part of the game. Grab any of several good endgame books and slog through it. I cheated myself and purchased several good books, and with the subsequent dilution of my effort and attention I lost much of the benefit that would have followed from studying one carefully. But if I had to suggest just one book, it would be Rook Endings by Levenfisch and Smyslov. It's hard work, very hard work. The kind that makes one stronger.

I certainly don't know the answer, because 25 years ago that is where I was. And while my life has progressed in many different directions since then, my chess really hasn't. A few things come t mind though. changing openings is often a door way to a new understanding of the middlegame. If you are getting stale, try something new and learn something new Endgames are the most neglected part of the game. Grab any of several good endgame books and slog through it. I cheated myself and purchased several good books, and with the subsequent dilution of my effort and attention I lost much of the benefit that would have followed from studying one carefully. But if I had to suggest just one book, it would be Rook Endings by Levenfisch and Smyslov. It's hard work, very hard work. The kind that makes one stronger.

fwhchess

#10

Play lots of thematic chess in your chosen openings, from both sides of the board. Thematic chess means starting from a preset opening position. Not exclusively of course, maybe 50%. Also maybe just play when you are mentally sharpest. For most people that is in the morning, after breakfast and exercise.