If you want to be 100% sure that your opponent will not cheat, follow and challenge me.
@Sacmaniac said in #1:
> The other day I played a casual game with a player that had a 93% win rate at Rapid and a record of 80 wins in a row. I'm not saying they cheated in that particular game with me, however it seems suspicious at best.
>
> Because it was a casual game should it matter if players cheat?
>
> Should I report suspiciously high win rate percentages ?
>
> What is a high win rate percentage?
>
> How do I use an engine to investigate a suspicious game?
>
> I wish I could just filter out players in casual games if their win rate was much higher than mine in that time control because it would eliminate a lot of stress and wasted time of looking up stats.
> Call me paranoid but I'm suspicious of win rates over 65% because it seems like something is being manipulated.
can you give us the game @Sacmaniac
@ManasTewari I'd have to go back and look because it was awhile ago. And I'm not even sure if it was a blitz, rapid or Chess 960 game. All I remember is that after looking at their stats I saw a suspiciously high win rate in Rapid that raised alarm bells.
After I lose to a lower rated player I often look at all their stats. If their win rate percentage goes up as the time controls are slower, I grow suspicious.
If their standard puzzle stat is high but their puzzle storm or puzzle racer is average that's a red flag too because it would be near impossible to cheat at Puzzle Storm or Racer, but I could be wrong.
My opponent didn't have any rated games I could study or any puzzle stats so it makes it harder to investigate.
All I had to go on was the 2 or 3 games they played against me. And like I mentioned, I'm not saying they cheated against me and I won't publicly shame them until I have more evidence. And there are bigger fish to fry and the moderators are swamped already investigating cheaters in Rated games or Titled Arenas where money is on the line and not just my ego.
All I'm really getting at with my post is that I'm asking rhetorical questions so that I can generate conversation in order to find the clues to cheating and improve overall detection.
It's not easy to find smart cheaters because they don't cheat every game. They lose and draw like other mortals sometimes. However, I think the greatest indicators of cheaters is their win rate percentage overall and not a particular game.
When investigating a cheater I look at so many factors because it can always be that the player is just a strong master that likes to crush newbies. I can understand this fun.
If Magnus wins 80 games in a row during a speed run, nobody bats an eye that his win rate percentage is over 90% but if a provisional player does it, that dubious at best.
@Sacmaniac said in #13:
> @ManasTewari I'd have to go back and look because it was awhile ago. And I'm not even sure if it was a blitz, rapid or Chess 960 game. All I remember is that after looking at their stats I saw a suspiciously high win rate in Rapid that raised alarm bells.
>
> After I lose to a lower rated player I often look at all their stats. If their win rate percentage goes up as the time controls are slower, I grow suspicious.
>
> If their standard puzzle stat is high but their puzzle storm or puzzle racer is average that's a red flag too because it would be near impossible to cheat at Puzzle Storm or Racer, but I could be wrong.
>
> My opponent didn't have any rated games I could study or any puzzle stats so it makes it harder to investigate.
>
> All I had to go on was the 2 or 3 games they played against me. And like I mentioned, I'm not saying they cheated against me and I won't publicly shame them until I have more evidence. And there are bigger fish to fry and the moderators are swamped already investigating cheaters in Rated games or Titled Arenas where money is on the line and not just my ego.
>
> All I'm really getting at with my post is that I'm asking rhetorical questions so that I can generate conversation in order to find the clues to cheating and improve overall detection.
>
> It's not easy to find smart cheaters because they don't cheat every game. They lose and draw like other mortals sometimes. However, I think the greatest indicators of cheaters is their win rate percentage overall and not a particular game.
>
> When investigating a cheater I look at so many factors because it can always be that the player is just a strong master that likes to crush newbies. I can understand this fun.
>
> If Magnus wins 80 games in a row during a speed run, nobody bats an eye that his win rate percentage is over 90% but if a provisional player does it, that dubious at best.
true
@Sacmaniac said in #13:
> @ManasTewari I'd have to go back and look because it was awhile ago. And I'm not even sure if it was a blitz, rapid or Chess 960 game. All I remember is that after looking at their stats I saw a suspiciously high win rate in Rapid that raised alarm bells.
>
> After I lose to a lower rated player I often look at all their stats. If their win rate percentage goes up as the time controls are slower, I grow suspicious.
>
> If their standard puzzle stat is high but their puzzle storm or puzzle racer is average that's a red flag too because it would be near impossible to cheat at Puzzle Storm or Racer, but I could be wrong.
>
> My opponent didn't have any rated games I could study or any puzzle stats so it makes it harder to investigate.
>
> All I had to go on was the 2 or 3 games they played against me. And like I mentioned, I'm not saying they cheated against me and I won't publicly shame them until I have more evidence. And there are bigger fish to fry and the moderators are swamped already investigating cheaters in Rated games or Titled Arenas where money is on the line and not just my ego.
>
> All I'm really getting at with my post is that I'm asking rhetorical questions so that I can generate conversation in order to find the clues to cheating and improve overall detection.
>
> It's not easy to find smart cheaters because they don't cheat every game. They lose and draw like other mortals sometimes. However, I think the greatest indicators of cheaters is their win rate percentage overall and not a particular game.
>
> When investigating a cheater I look at so many factors because it can always be that the player is just a strong master that likes to crush newbies. I can understand this fun.
>
> If Magnus wins 80 games in a row during a speed run, nobody bats an eye that his win rate percentage is over 90% but if a provisional player does it, that dubious at best.
Better performance at slower time controls doesn’t necessarily suggest cheating. Look at my numbers for example. My time management is horrendous and I either flag or blunder in blitz because halfway into the middle game I am surviving on my 5 second increment. Plus I learned chess playing over the board at slower time controls and I’m an older player, at least in comparison to the kids and teens who are pretty prevalent on here. I think it’s easy to rush to conclusions after a loss, especially if you have a higher rating compared to them either in the time control being played or other time controls. I think it is incorrect to assume every chess player is the same and will have similar ratings across different time controls.
@Sacmaniac said in #1:
> The other day I played a casual game with a player that had a 93% win rate at Rapid and a record of 80 wins in a row. I'm not saying they cheated in that particular game with me, however it seems suspicious at best.
>
> Because it was a casual game should it matter if players cheat?
>
> Should I report suspiciously high win rate percentages ?
>
> What is a high win rate percentage?
>
> How do I use an engine to investigate a suspicious game?
>
> I wish I could just filter out players in casual games if their win rate was much higher than mine in that time control because it would eliminate a lot of stress and wasted time of looking up stats.
>
> Call me paranoid but I'm suspicious of win rates over 65% because it seems like something is being manipulated.
If you suspect cheating you should probably report him.
My win rate in this account in rapid is 89% but only because I play in the lobby against far lower rated players in casual mode while I'm doing other stuff (like in a video conference call or whatever). I just like having a game going on, even if it's against 1500s because it gives me something to click while bored.
My win rate in rated games only is around 55%.
@ManasTewari Asking for the game, the name of the players or any other information leads to public shaming and that's not allowed. Please refrain from asking so in future.
@Sacmaniac Public shaming is not allowed in any case, evidence or no evidence. Your evidence should be posted nowhere but in the report message box.
@Foolacious said in #2:
> 1) I played against a person who was new to Lichess and had 59 wins, 1 draw, 0 (zero) losses -- a win rate of 99%. They had a provisional rating of 1500 because they never played rated games. They weren't cheating, but they were effectively sandbagging by intentionally (as they admitted) concealing their strength.
That's not sandbagging. Sandbagging is intentionally losing to artificially depress your rating, usually to enter a tournament you would normally be disallowed from entering (e.g. a 1700 tanking games to lower his rating to 1590 to play - and be a favorite to win - an U1600 tournament).
Someone playing only unrated games is a choice, not cheating.
@Sacmaniac said in #13:
> @ManasTewari I'd have to go back and look because it was awhile ago. And I'm not even sure if it was a blitz, rapid or Chess 960 game. All I remember is that after looking at their stats I saw a suspiciously high win rate in Rapid that raised alarm bells.
>
> After I lose to a lower rated player I often look at all their stats. If their win rate percentage goes up as the time controls are slower, I grow suspicious.
>
> If their standard puzzle stat is high but their puzzle storm or puzzle racer is average that's a red flag too because it would be near impossible to cheat at Puzzle Storm or Racer, but I could be wrong.
>
> My opponent didn't have any rated games I could study or any puzzle stats so it makes it harder to investigate.
>
> All I had to go on was the 2 or 3 games they played against me. And like I mentioned, I'm not saying they cheated against me and I won't publicly shame them until I have more evidence. And there are bigger fish to fry and the moderators are swamped already investigating cheaters in Rated games or Titled Arenas where money is on the line and not just my ego.
>
> All I'm really getting at with my post is that I'm asking rhetorical questions so that I can generate conversation in order to find the clues to cheating and improve overall detection.
>
> It's not easy to find smart cheaters because they don't cheat every game. They lose and draw like other mortals sometimes. However, I think the greatest indicators of cheaters is their win rate percentage overall and not a particular game.
>
> When investigating a cheater I look at so many factors because it can always be that the player is just a strong master that likes to crush newbies. I can understand this fun.
>
> If Magnus wins 80 games in a row during a speed run, nobody bats an eye that his win rate percentage is over 90% but if a provisional player does it, that dubious at best.
true
A Lichess Moderator said in #18:
> @ManasTewari Asking for the game, the name of the players or any other information leads to public shaming and that's not allowed. Please refrain from asking so in future.
>
> @Sacmaniac Public shaming is not allowed in any case, evidence or no evidence. Your evidence should be posted nowhere but in the report message box.
OK
This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.