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My System Chapter 5 - On Exchanging

Right, we're onto week five of the Forum Book Club on My System by Aron Nimzowitsch. This week we're looking at Chapter 5: On Exchanging. Have a look through it and come back with anything you found particularly enlightening or particularly mystifying.

Topics covered:
1 We exchange in order to seize (or open) a file without loss of time.
2 We destroy a defender by exchanging.
3 We exchange in order not to lose time by retreating.
3a "Selling one's life as dearly as possible."
4 When and how exchanges usually take place.

Also, this week's chapter is one of the shorter ones whereas last week's was a bit of a behemoth and got interrupted somewhat by the server issues, so if anyone wants to go back to that one then feel free to bump the thread.

Links to previous threads:
Chapter 1 - On the Centre and Development
lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-1-on-the-centre-and-development
Chapter 2 - On Open Files
lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-2-on-open-files
Chapter 3 - The Seventh and Eighth Ranks
lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-3-the-seventh-and-eighth-ranks
Chapter 4 - The Passed Pawn
https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-4-the-passed-pawn

Right, we're onto week five of the Forum Book Club on My System by Aron Nimzowitsch. This week we're looking at Chapter 5: On Exchanging. Have a look through it and come back with anything you found particularly enlightening or particularly mystifying. Topics covered: 1 We exchange in order to seize (or open) a file without loss of time. 2 We destroy a defender by exchanging. 3 We exchange in order not to lose time by retreating. 3a "Selling one's life as dearly as possible." 4 When and how exchanges usually take place. Also, this week's chapter is one of the shorter ones whereas last week's was a bit of a behemoth and got interrupted somewhat by the server issues, so if anyone wants to go back to that one then feel free to bump the thread. Links to previous threads: Chapter 1 - On the Centre and Development lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-1-on-the-centre-and-development Chapter 2 - On Open Files lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-2-on-open-files Chapter 3 - The Seventh and Eighth Ranks lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-3-the-seventh-and-eighth-ranks Chapter 4 - The Passed Pawn https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/my-system-chapter-4-the-passed-pawn

First thoughts:
I feel like "it is bad to exchange without a good reason - here are the good reasons" is really good beginner advice. But the list leaves me thinking that surely there are more reasons?

For instance, do Nimzovich's reasons cover:
exchanging when you're defending to take the sting out of an attack?
exchanging when your position is cramped to allow for freer movement?
exchanging to mess up your opponent's pawn structure, or forcing an exchange to miss your own?
exchanging a passive piece for a more active one, eg getting rid of a knight on an outpost?
exchanging your bad bishop for the opponent's good bishop?
exchanging in the endgame because you've got more pawns?

I guess that if you squint some of these could be removing a defender, eg the active piece or the good bishop?

First thoughts: I feel like "it is bad to exchange without a good reason - here are the good reasons" is really good beginner advice. But the list leaves me thinking that surely there are more reasons? For instance, do Nimzovich's reasons cover: exchanging when you're defending to take the sting out of an attack? exchanging when your position is cramped to allow for freer movement? exchanging to mess up your opponent's pawn structure, or forcing an exchange to miss your own? exchanging a passive piece for a more active one, eg getting rid of a knight on an outpost? exchanging your bad bishop for the opponent's good bishop? exchanging in the endgame because you've got more pawns? I guess that if you squint some of these could be removing a defender, eg the active piece or the good bishop?

@jomega / @lloydthompson / @dboing / anyone else - is there still interest in these threads? I'm still enjoying the discipline of working carefully through the book, but I don't want to feel like I'm shouting into the void as far as forum posts go...

@jomega / @lloydthompson / @dboing / anyone else - is there still interest in these threads? I'm still enjoying the discipline of working carefully through the book, but I don't want to feel like I'm shouting into the void as far as forum posts go...

@RamblinDave I am very patient with myself, and with these Threads. Perhaps the pace of one week per chapter, and the sequential ordering (my personal favorite doubt), is too fast?

Since you have carefully made each previous thread back-links in the new ones, maybe mention that in the end all threads can be kept alive.

I would also remind that these thread can survive one month without automatically getting archived by lichess (AFAIK).

I don't view myself as an informative contributor, but I think that even the few contributions so far are not lost in the sea.... I have been reading them before, even without reading the book sections in question. And i bet others might have found them beneficial to read...

@RamblinDave I am very patient with myself, and with these Threads. Perhaps the pace of one week per chapter, and the sequential ordering (my personal favorite doubt), is too fast? Since you have carefully made each previous thread back-links in the new ones, maybe mention that in the end all threads can be kept alive. I would also remind that these thread can survive one month without automatically getting archived by lichess (AFAIK). I don't view myself as an informative contributor, but I think that even the few contributions so far are not lost in the sea.... I have been reading them before, even without reading the book sections in question. And i bet others might have found them beneficial to read...

bottle in the sea? not at all.

bottle in the sea? not at all.

#5 and #3 : bottle in the sea = shouting into the void; i.e. falling on deaf ears

@RamblinDave I appreciate these threads and I agree with @dboing that contributions are not a waste of time. My guess is that many people enjoy reading them, but do not want to contribute themselves.

I wish I had the time to contribute in depth to each of the threads. I'm evolved in many chess activities and sometimes the threads on My System are not my highest priority.

On the discord used by the Adult Improvers Lichess team, discussions have started on these 4 books:

Masters of the Chessboard - Reti
Simple Chess - Stean
Think Like a Grandmaster - Kotov
Logical Chess Move by Move - Chernev

and I want to contribute to all of these. The team leader and I are hoping to have more contributors on those than just the two of us. Currently we have about 3 contributors on those discord channels despite having 457 members in the team. So the issue you face with these My System threads having contributors is a common thing.

I'm the leader of my local chess club with various activities that I do there for the club, but participation is down to a handful of people and, of course, COVID is not helping the situation.

I have several chess students, but some called off meetings until they are comfortable being around people again.

I'm still trying to get my Lichess advanced course "finished", and I'm working on other chess projects.

Please keep the My System threads going.

#5 and #3 : bottle in the sea = shouting into the void; i.e. falling on deaf ears @RamblinDave I appreciate these threads and I agree with @dboing that contributions are not a waste of time. My guess is that many people enjoy reading them, but do not want to contribute themselves. I wish I had the time to contribute in depth to each of the threads. I'm evolved in many chess activities and sometimes the threads on My System are not my highest priority. On the discord used by the Adult Improvers Lichess team, discussions have started on these 4 books: Masters of the Chessboard - Reti Simple Chess - Stean Think Like a Grandmaster - Kotov Logical Chess Move by Move - Chernev and I want to contribute to all of these. The team leader and I are hoping to have more contributors on those than just the two of us. Currently we have about 3 contributors on those discord channels despite having 457 members in the team. So the issue you face with these My System threads having contributors is a common thing. I'm the leader of my local chess club with various activities that I do there for the club, but participation is down to a handful of people and, of course, COVID is not helping the situation. I have several chess students, but some called off meetings until they are comfortable being around people again. I'm still trying to get my Lichess advanced course "finished", and I'm working on other chess projects. Please keep the My System threads going.

With the view count having been removed in the forum, it is harder to tell if threads have interest. For example, on these "My System" threads, there may be many people interested in reading the threads but not interested in contributing.

So, please give a thumbs up on this post of mine if you'd like to see RamblinDave continue to make the "My System threads", and a thumbs down if not. I hope that the responses will give RamblinDave the feedback he's looking for.

With the view count having been removed in the forum, it is harder to tell if threads have interest. For example, on these "My System" threads, there may be many people interested in reading the threads but not interested in contributing. So, please give a thumbs up on this post of mine if you'd like to see RamblinDave continue to make the "My System threads", and a thumbs down if not. I hope that the responses will give RamblinDave the feedback he's looking for.

@RamblinDave Your comments in #2, especially "good beginner advice", got me to thinking about something else; namely the audience Nimzo is assuming.

It is clear that he is assuming the audience is not needing advice on the really elementary topics of exchanges. Beyond basic visualization there is what @PixelatedParcel calls "the exchange calculus", what Dan Heisman calls "counting", what I call the attack/defense network (ADN) with exchange-rules-of-thumb (EROT), and what is implemented in many chess engines as SEE (static exchange evaluation). While I see nothing wrong with exposing people that don't have those skills to the ideas in Nimzo's chapter 5, many times those people's games are being decided by elementary tactics.

For a teacher of chess, sometimes the issue of "exchanges" isn't the more "theoretical" or "strategic" one taken up by Nimzo in chapter 5, but the more practical issue of what to recommend as study and practice for the student with little time for chess study but wanting to improve their game. And for the student who has those elementary exchange skill, I agree with you that Nimzo left a lot of reasons for exchanges out of this short chapter.

@RamblinDave Your comments in #2, especially "good beginner advice", got me to thinking about something else; namely the audience Nimzo is assuming. It is clear that he is assuming the audience is not needing advice on the really elementary topics of exchanges. Beyond basic visualization there is what @PixelatedParcel calls "the exchange calculus", what Dan Heisman calls "counting", what I call the attack/defense network (ADN) with exchange-rules-of-thumb (EROT), and what is implemented in many chess engines as SEE (static exchange evaluation). While I see nothing wrong with exposing people that don't have those skills to the ideas in Nimzo's chapter 5, many times those people's games are being decided by elementary tactics. For a teacher of chess, sometimes the issue of "exchanges" isn't the more "theoretical" or "strategic" one taken up by Nimzo in chapter 5, but the more practical issue of what to recommend as study and practice for the student with little time for chess study but wanting to improve their game. And for the student who has those elementary exchange skill, I agree with you that Nimzo left a lot of reasons for exchanges out of this short chapter.

Okay, cool. I was going to keep working through the book anyway, and it's not much extra effort to do a post every week or so, so I'll keep putting stuff up. Thanks for the kind words!

I'll probably keep at one thread per week for now, but might slow down when we get to Section 2 and things get a bit more complicated...

Okay, cool. I was going to keep working through the book anyway, and it's not much extra effort to do a post every week or so, so I'll keep putting stuff up. Thanks for the kind words! I'll probably keep at one thread per week for now, but might slow down when we get to Section 2 and things get a bit more complicated...

#9
What is the purpose of the thread? Is it to provide a synopsis of the book? To provide interpretations of the book? Is it to ask questions about the book? A bit of each?

#9 What is the purpose of the thread? Is it to provide a synopsis of the book? To provide interpretations of the book? Is it to ask questions about the book? A bit of each?

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.