More Cheaters For Magnus to Call Out and Condemn • page 1/9 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

Both Arjun Erigaisi and Gukesh Dommaraju have defeated Magnus Carlsen online. Why hasn't Carlsen accused them both of cheating??!! Come on Magnus! Call them out and brand them as cheaters. How could they have beaten you otherwise?

Carlsen still has provided no proof of otb cheating by Hans Nieman in his loss to Niemann in St. Louis last month. FIDE has apparently begun its investigation of Carlsen's unsupported charges against Niemann. FIDE will hopefully, at a minimum, reprimand Carlsen for making this unsupported cheating allegation, or suspend him for a short period of time--perhaps three to six months.

The right thing would be for Carlsen to admit that he acted in anger over his loss and apologize to Niemann. If Carlsen did so, he could turn the apology into a major public relations event that could only increase his standing in the world of chess and beyond.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/aimchess-rapid-2022-d3

Both Arjun Erigaisi and Gukesh Dommaraju have defeated Magnus Carlsen online. Why hasn't Carlsen accused them both of cheating??!! Come on Magnus! Call them out and brand them as cheaters. How could they have beaten you otherwise? Carlsen still has provided no proof of otb cheating by Hans Nieman in his loss to Niemann in St. Louis last month. FIDE has apparently begun its investigation of Carlsen's unsupported charges against Niemann. FIDE will hopefully, at a minimum, reprimand Carlsen for making this unsupported cheating allegation, or suspend him for a short period of time--perhaps three to six months. The right thing would be for Carlsen to admit that he acted in anger over his loss and apologize to Niemann. If Carlsen did so, he could turn the apology into a major public relations event that could only increase his standing in the world of chess and beyond. https://en.chessbase.com/post/aimchess-rapid-2022-d3

stale

@ShiningDrongo said in #2:

stale
Not stale until the attack on Niemann's character otb is resolved.

Carlsen recently made this comment about the situation.
"Speaking about recent developments on cheating stories which became the top news of mass media, Magnus explained that there are a lot of things he could say and added that he thinks it’s good that the attitude about cheating is changing: “I think in general terms, it’s good that the attitude is changing“."
https://www.chessdom.com/magnus-carlsen-i-think-its-good-that-the-attitude-about-cheating-is-changing/

I agree with Carlsen's statement in general. It's just unfortunate that the chess World Champion raised the cheating issue is such an unseemly manner that has put him in the position where apologizing to Niemann might be deemed an admission against interest in a possible defamation law suit against him.

@ShiningDrongo said in #2: > stale Not stale until the attack on Niemann's character otb is resolved. Carlsen recently made this comment about the situation. "Speaking about recent developments on cheating stories which became the top news of mass media, Magnus explained that there are a lot of things he could say and added that he thinks it’s good that the attitude about cheating is changing: “I think in general terms, it’s good that the attitude is changing“." https://www.chessdom.com/magnus-carlsen-i-think-its-good-that-the-attitude-about-cheating-is-changing/ I agree with Carlsen's statement in general. It's just unfortunate that the chess World Champion raised the cheating issue is such an unseemly manner that has put him in the position where apologizing to Niemann might be deemed an admission against interest in a possible defamation law suit against him.

Cedur216

#4

as of now Magnus has no reason or incentive to apologize, and it shows you're allowed to beat him by all means if you have a clean sheet

VTWood

#5

@Cedur216 said in #4:

as of now Magnus has no reason or incentive to apologize, and it shows you're allowed to beat him by all means if you have a clean sheet

I think as Magnus ages he's going to be beaten with increasing frequency. As to "clean sheets," Niemann has, as of now, a completely clean sheet in otb chess.

No incentive to apologize? Doing the right thing by rectifying an unsupported, false otb cheating charge doesn't count? If Carlsen did apologize, I suspect that Niemann wouldn't sue him, but I can understand the legal pressures to not apologize absent a signed release from liability in hand from Niemann.

@Cedur216 said in #4: > as of now Magnus has no reason or incentive to apologize, and it shows you're allowed to beat him by all means if you have a clean sheet I think as Magnus ages he's going to be beaten with increasing frequency. As to "clean sheets," Niemann has, as of now, a completely clean sheet in otb chess. No incentive to apologize? Doing the right thing by rectifying an unsupported, false otb cheating charge doesn't count? If Carlsen did apologize, I suspect that Niemann wouldn't sue him, but I can understand the legal pressures to not apologize absent a signed release from liability in hand from Niemann.

Cedur216

#6

You can't read Magnus' mind, you can't call his claims false yet.

BorisOspasky

#7

@Cedur216 If HN didnt beat MC with a ‘clean sheet’, then it should be shown that he didn’t. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

Cedur216

#8

Well I'm not sure what Magnus has in his mind but there is HN's known extent of online cheating, his lying (while asserting OTB cleanness in the same breath), and several indicators that don't reflect well on him

ClayAndSilence edited

#9

@Cedur216 said in #8:

Well I'm not sure what Magnus has in his mind but there is HN's known extent of online cheating, his lying (while asserting OTB cleanness in the same breath), and several indicators that don't reflect well on him

None of that is proof of otb cheating. None of it would be regarded as reasonable evidence, let alone proof, by a disinterested person looking at what has happened.

I don't care about or for Niemann. I'm trying to look at this objectively. Niemann cheated online. He was punished by the platform for doing it. Fair enough. He claims he's never cheated otb, or online in the last two years, and there's no evidence to contradict him, which is attested to by even the platform who caught him cheating, even though they don't appear to be well disposed towards him. This is what we know with a degree of certainty. I can't see any other rational way of looking at it.

But leaving Niemann to one side, a genuine question for you - why are you so gungho for Carlsen? I just don't get it. Why the allegiance?

@Cedur216 said in #8: > Well I'm not sure what Magnus has in his mind but there is HN's known extent of online cheating, his lying (while asserting OTB cleanness in the same breath), and several indicators that don't reflect well on him None of that is proof of otb cheating. None of it would be regarded as reasonable evidence, let alone proof, by a disinterested person looking at what has happened. I don't care about or for Niemann. I'm trying to look at this objectively. Niemann cheated online. He was punished by the platform for doing it. Fair enough. He claims he's never cheated otb, or online in the last two years, and there's no evidence to contradict him, which is attested to by even the platform who caught him cheating, even though they don't appear to be well disposed towards him. This is what we know with a degree of certainty. I can't see any other rational way of looking at it. But leaving Niemann to one side, a genuine question for you - why are you so gungho for Carlsen? I just don't get it. Why the allegiance?

Cedur216

edited

#10

I'm NOT loyal to Magnus, I was confused by his lack of explanation too, but I feel the same about cheating and have similar experiences - cheating remains a serious issue, and lack of provability shall not protect cheaters!

Also, to re-emphasize, Niemann claims he never cheated since 2019 and never when something was at stake, and the chesscom report contradicted him, chesscom has proof it was lies (even tho the proof is not public).

Also as the first post starts with the sass of "two young guys beat Magnus, why are they not singled out?" - No. If Magnus acts against someone saying they're a cheater, it's because he thinks there's cheating, not just because he was defeated.

I'm NOT loyal to Magnus, I was confused by his lack of explanation too, but I feel the same about cheating and have similar experiences - cheating remains a serious issue, and lack of provability shall not protect cheaters! Also, to re-emphasize, Niemann claims he never cheated since 2019 and never when something was at stake, and the chesscom report contradicted him, chesscom has proof it was lies (even tho the proof is not public). Also as the first post starts with the sass of "two young guys beat Magnus, why are they not singled out?" - No. If Magnus acts against someone saying they're a cheater, it's because he thinks there's cheating, not just because he was defeated.