Is it ok to use stockfish to prove that another player is cheating?

@vcataldi93 said in #1:

As explained, we have reported an user that has an overall 97% accuracy score in a private tournament. The user has not been banned. He won against another user that have been banned for using cheats (another user that got 97% accuracy over 17 matches, and only lost one, against this other user - which begs the question: who is able to win against a cheater?)

After losing the tournament match, a player of the tournament had a casual game against him, but this time had used stockfish to see what would happen. And they got a draw, so clearly the 97% player is cheating.

This player would like to report the cheater, but is afraid of getting banned because had user stockfish.

As the first report had not succeeded (like any normal human being could achieve an average 16 average centipawn loss over 8 matches...) should we report to the mod sending the match that had been played against stockfish itself? Will both user get banned, or only the cheater?

It is really unfortunate that your friend used cheats. I would suggest reporting the other person who cheated and emailing moderators to try and explain the situation. If your friend cheated only in one game they may forgive him.

Reports can take some time. We often read the word "obvious" in reports. Sometimes we come to a different conclusion. But we don't discuss details of our detection.

@vcataldi93 said in #7:

So you think a 1700 player winning 8 tournaments matches against people between 1600 and 2000, with an average 98% accuracy, winning against a cheater that has been banned, and drawing against stockfish is not enough proof to say that he's a cheater? Well, if that is not enough proof, I don't know what else might be lol

Whether that is enough proof is not here nor there in regards to your question. If you would play rated game against someone that would violation of TOS and if detected would lead sanctions for sure.

Also 8 wins in a row is not usual but is not impossible. Happens on this site every day. Probably several times.

Accuracy being high does not mean someone cheated as it function on players skill only but:

• a simple game that simplifies to dead draw people keep on playing when almost every move draws
• a game where opponent makes mistake early but game drags on without ever swinging on result.
• or even you lose lets say you blunder piece early and manage to get down some long endgame i.e lots of moves that both get 100% right.

So perhaps suspicious but not a proof.

Heck I'm low rated but even I have several high accuracy games, several "perfect" 0-0-0 games,one with a acl of 4 and I certainly don't cheat or even know how. I look at high accuracy as " hey,I didn't screw up" and don't think it's an indication of cheating at all. Sometimes the board situation dictates the move .

@Dukedog said in #14:

Heck I'm low rated but even I have several high accuracy games, several "perfect" 0-0-0 games,one with a acl of 4 and I certainly don't cheat or even know how. I look at high accuracy as " hey,I didn't screw up" and don't think it's an indication of cheating at all. Sometimes the board situation dictates the move .

It is not so simple as you move up in experience.

In simple positions or when the opponent makes mistakes, there are moves that are clearly winning, and sometimes there are several moves that you can pick up without any risk.

Anyway, when you study chess and start understanding dynamics of the game, the positions starts to become complex. There are a lot of moves that might be played, but only few are good ones. You pick one thinking it is good, because as a human being you cannot calculate 50 variants in 30 seconds. So you play it and at the end of the game stockfish tells you it was bad, because you created a long term weakness.

And here comes the cheater, that no matter the complexity of the game, always picks up the top engine move.

When you play a 60 moves game with complex positions, it is very difficult to score such high accuracy, unless you are a grand master playing against an intermediate player. In that case it might be acceptable

I think you should report him or her and let lichess.org do their job. I strongly believe lichess.org have a better way of detecting cheaters than we do and I think their "finding the cheater operation" is really accurate.

Oooops who zoomin who? messed up there , me thinks xxx

@vcataldi93 said in #1:

This player would like to report the cheater, but is afraid of getting banned because had user stockfish.

I get what u are saying

once I caught a person saying the f word in a chat so I reported him but I got banned from the chat for 15 mins
I didn't know that saying the f word is fine.

The problem is that moderators have to choose which bad scenario they prefer: banning a suspicious but possibly honest player or allowing a suspicious player to reach the 2600 ranking where he will prove to be a cheater in a game against GM like Wesley So (GM can leave the site after that :) ). There is no objectively good choice here, just simply the choice we personally think is the right one.

Going to play a chess tournament in Oslo city (OTB) next week (1-2 games a day for one week). The manager of the tournament has introduced the strictest anti-cheating measures I have ever seen. The judges will take random samples of randomly selected people during the games. Where they use various scanning technology and other things. Everyone must stay inside an area while playing. If they go outside, it's a loss no matter what. Everyone is treated equally. Everyone is scanned. Guards walk around and spy for suspicious behavior/collaboration. The manager said that "We have now reached a point where this is necessary now". A few years ago there was a man in his 40s and 50s who had a microphone in his ear and received help from outside in a Norwegian tournament. He even cheated like this against an 8 year old innocent little girl. Egoism clearly knows no boundaries within some individuals.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to play against regular people in a real tournament for a week from tomorrow :)