Interesting position for catching out cheaters :D • page 1/5 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

Blitz game of mine. What would you play as a human? White has the move.

lichess.org/editor/1r1qr1k1/2R2p1p/pb1p2pB/n3p3/8/1P3BP1/PQ2PP1P/2R3K1 w - - 0 19

Blitz game of mine. What would you play as a human? White has the move. lichess.org/editor/1r1qr1k1/2R2p1p/pb1p2pB/n3p3/8/1P3BP1/PQ2PP1P/2R3K1 w - - 0 19

CM Sarg0n

#2

I hope this doesn't violate any standards because I used the "c" word.

Maybe Rxf7 works?

Good find, I see the point.

In a rapid/classical time control, I will have enough time to calculate if the attack works after Rxf7 Kxf7 Bd5+ and/or if Black has any tricky counterplay after Rxf7 instead of playing ...Kxf7

Even in a blitz game, with increment, if I can afford to spend like a minute to calculate Rxf7, I could play that (indeed Rxf7 is the top engine choice and decisively winning).

The safer choice, without spending much think time would be to play R7c2 (practically, this would be the natural move to play imo if I want to not burn a lot of time on the clock). This is apparently the 3rd engine choice and would be a ?? since the position becomes equal.

A cheater who is trying to hide his tracks will play R7c3! which is the 2nd engine choice (winning still but inferior to Rxf7) and is absolutely bonkers for a human to play, so counterintuitive willingly allowing ...Bd4 skewer (the engine line goes R7c3! Bd4 Qd2! Bxc3 Rxc3, white willingly sacrifices the exchange but apparently the position is +2 for white according to the engine).

Good find, I see the point. In a rapid/classical time control, I will have enough time to calculate if the attack works after Rxf7 Kxf7 Bd5+ and/or if Black has any tricky counterplay after Rxf7 instead of playing ...Kxf7 Even in a blitz game, with increment, if I can afford to spend like a minute to calculate Rxf7, I could play that (indeed Rxf7 is the top engine choice and decisively winning). The safer choice, without spending much think time would be to play R7c2 (practically, this would be the natural move to play imo if I want to not burn a lot of time on the clock). This is apparently the 3rd engine choice and would be a ?? since the position becomes equal. A cheater who is trying to hide his tracks will play R7c3! which is the 2nd engine choice (winning still but inferior to Rxf7) and is absolutely bonkers for a human to play, so counterintuitive willingly allowing ...Bd4 skewer (the engine line goes R7c3! Bd4 Qd2! Bxc3 Rxc3, white willingly sacrifices the exchange but apparently the position is +2 for white according to the engine).

CM Sarg0n

edited

#5

So the number #2 engine choice is even more sus?

The problem with #1 is that it is extremely complicated to combine all motifs.

So the number #2 engine choice is even more sus? The problem with #1 is that it is extremely complicated to combine all motifs.

Anon581

#6

@Sarg0n said in #5:

So the number #2 engine choice is even more sus?

Sure is, to me. The #1 choice of Rxf7 is still a human move imo if there is time to calculate. I'll admit though, I'll definitely not bother calculating Rxf7 and just go R7c2 unless I was playing slower rapid/classical time controls. But it should still be a human move: I think I have seen a few master games with such Rxf7 or Rxh7 sac in similar positions. Sure, it is difficult to combine all the motifs in the position and ensure there's no tricky counterplay from Black, but with enough time to calculate, it should be doable.

The #2 choice of R7c2 is super sus, white willingly allows ...Bd4 and take your rook, thus losing the strong rook battery on the c-file for no immediate compensation I can see, I'm guessing white activity is just so good with the bishop on h6 and Bd5 coming and you already have a rook lifted to c3 after Bxc3 Rxc3 that you could possibly swing over to f3 later for an attack that the engine still values it as a +2 advantage for white. But I doubt a human will play R7c3 when the ...Bd4 skewer is an obvious follow up and white will be down the exchange for an attack that probably comes up 10-15 moves later with best play.

@Sarg0n said in #5: > So the number #2 engine choice is even more sus? Sure is, to me. The #1 choice of Rxf7 is still a human move imo if there is time to calculate. I'll admit though, I'll definitely not bother calculating Rxf7 and just go R7c2 unless I was playing slower rapid/classical time controls. But it should still be a human move: I think I have seen a few master games with such Rxf7 or Rxh7 sac in similar positions. Sure, it is difficult to combine all the motifs in the position and ensure there's no tricky counterplay from Black, but with enough time to calculate, it should be doable. The #2 choice of R7c2 is super sus, white willingly allows ...Bd4 and take your rook, thus losing the strong rook battery on the c-file for no immediate compensation I can see, I'm guessing white activity is just so good with the bishop on h6 and Bd5 coming and you already have a rook lifted to c3 after Bxc3 Rxc3 that you could possibly swing over to f3 later for an attack that the engine still values it as a +2 advantage for white. But I doubt a human will play R7c3 when the ...Bd4 skewer is an obvious follow up and white will be down the exchange for an attack that probably comes up 10-15 moves later with best play.

GoLdEnFLAME

#7

Rook captures f7. If King captures, which most likely he will, then Bishop d5 will be my next move and if Rook tries to block the check with e6 then I'll push pawn forward to b4 to try and attack the Knight that way I have room for my Queen to go on the diagonal on b3 with the idea of capturing the Rook with the Queen being on the diagonal to defend it from being captured by the King. Obviously I would try to hold on to my Bishop and not recapture the Rook right away if he decides to block the check.

This is what I'd try if I was in this position. I think most humans will attempt to sacrifice their Rook by capturing the pawn on f7 to create a counter attack.

What happens next is difficult to say. It depends on time controls and how much time there is for me to calculate. In a short game black could easily blunder and make a mistake. Rxf7 is a human move after all, the question is what follows next and whether all the other moves are perfect from white. That also depends on blacks moves. If black doesn't play well a human could definitely exploit and win.

Rook captures f7. If King captures, which most likely he will, then Bishop d5 will be my next move and if Rook tries to block the check with e6 then I'll push pawn forward to b4 to try and attack the Knight that way I have room for my Queen to go on the diagonal on b3 with the idea of capturing the Rook with the Queen being on the diagonal to defend it from being captured by the King. Obviously I would try to hold on to my Bishop and not recapture the Rook right away if he decides to block the check. This is what I'd try if I was in this position. I think most humans will attempt to sacrifice their Rook by capturing the pawn on f7 to create a counter attack. What happens next is difficult to say. It depends on time controls and how much time there is for me to calculate. In a short game black could easily blunder and make a mistake. Rxf7 is a human move after all, the question is what follows next and whether all the other moves are perfect from white. That also depends on blacks moves. If black doesn't play well a human could definitely exploit and win.

CM Sarg0n

#8

One has to take into consideration that after b4 the Knight doesn’t have to move - at least for one move.

the_puzzles

#9

In a real game I’d play R7c2 lol. All other moves are out of my calculation capabilities (:

Geelse_zot edited

#10

I would play R7c2 aswell. I saw Rxf7 but to me it didn't look promissing after Kxf7 Bd5+ Re6 (and I was wrong it seems)