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How is this a draw???

#11

#1
It is a draw by the current rules. Of course that doesn't say why that rule is the way it is. Here is my attempt at an answer to this rule and some others.

When clocks were introduced into chess (OTB), overstepping the time limit resulting in a monetary fine, but the transgressor did not lose the game. People were not happy with that rule.

Later tournaments were held where overstepping the time limit lost the game. Period!
People were not happy with that rule, because, like in the position in your game, without a clock, Black could not possibly win. White would probably win without the clock, but it is possible for White to mess up. Hence, the compromise of a draw.
FIDE 6.9 says:
Except where one of Articles 5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 5.2.3 applies, if a player does not
complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that
player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot
checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

In some other positions, the situation on the board overrules the clock - such as mate on the board, but flag has fallen. The mate wins.
FIDE 5.1.1 says:
5.1.1 The game is won by the player who has checkmated his opponent’s king. This immediately ends the game, ...

FIDE rules say 'dead positions' (no possible sequence of moves can win for either player) are draws, however computers cannot recognize all of these.
FIDE 5.2.2 says:
The game is drawn when a position has arisen in which neither player can checkmate
the opponent’s king with any series of legal moves. The game is said to end in a ‘dead
position’. This immediately ends the game, ...

This phrase "by any possible series of legal moves" appears multiple times in the FIDE rules, and one of the results of the rules is that a player can lose a game because of overstepping the time limit, and his opponent can demonstrate that there is a possible series of legal moves that checkmates (or the computer knows such). The rules in FIDE do not consider how improbable such a series of moves is!

People were not happy with this last situation. Indeed the USCF has for years had rules under the heading 'insufficient losing chances' that try to accommodate such cases. You can probably imagine the issues this rule caused at tournaments. The invention of digital clocks with time increment features helped solve the TDs problems. Just make the players play it out!
The latest USCF rules seem to be headed to removing the 'insufficient losing chances' rules.

#1 It is a draw by the current rules. Of course that doesn't say why that rule is the way it is. Here is my attempt at an answer to this rule and some others. When clocks were introduced into chess (OTB), overstepping the time limit resulting in a monetary fine, but the transgressor did not lose the game. People were not happy with that rule. Later tournaments were held where overstepping the time limit lost the game. Period! People were not happy with that rule, because, like in the position in your game, without a clock, Black could not possibly win. White would probably win without the clock, but it is possible for White to mess up. Hence, the compromise of a draw. FIDE 6.9 says: Except where one of Articles 5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 5.2.3 applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves. In some other positions, the situation on the board overrules the clock - such as mate on the board, but flag has fallen. The mate wins. FIDE 5.1.1 says: 5.1.1 The game is won by the player who has checkmated his opponent’s king. This immediately ends the game, ... FIDE rules say 'dead positions' (no possible sequence of moves can win for either player) are draws, however computers cannot recognize all of these. FIDE 5.2.2 says: The game is drawn when a position has arisen in which neither player can checkmate the opponent’s king with any series of legal moves. The game is said to end in a ‘dead position’. This immediately ends the game, ... This phrase "by any possible series of legal moves" appears multiple times in the FIDE rules, and one of the results of the rules is that a player can lose a game because of overstepping the time limit, and his opponent can demonstrate that there is a possible series of legal moves that checkmates (or the computer knows such). The rules in FIDE do not consider how improbable such a series of moves is! People were not happy with this last situation. Indeed the USCF has for years had rules under the heading 'insufficient losing chances' that try to accommodate such cases. You can probably imagine the issues this rule caused at tournaments. The invention of digital clocks with time increment features helped solve the TDs problems. Just make the players play it out! The latest USCF rules seem to be headed to removing the 'insufficient losing chances' rules.
#12

@BlackRajaWhiteWazir White does not have any legal way to checkmate black, but since black timed out, it's a draw.

@BlackRajaWhiteWazir White does not have any legal way to checkmate black, but since black timed out, it's a draw.
#13

haha nvm then, same thing as #1 just different colors in #10

the fact that you have more material doesnt mean anything if you dont use it to mate the opponent within the given time limit.

i timed out with M1 on the board countless times in bullet lol
more than 80% of my losses in bullet are by timeout, im slow

haha nvm then, same thing as #1 just different colors in #10 the fact that you have more material doesnt mean anything if you dont use it to mate the opponent within the given time limit. i timed out with M1 on the board countless times in bullet lol more than 80% of my losses in bullet are by timeout, im slow
#15

@BlackRajaWhiteWazir said in #7:

Checkmate can be done from Rook and King, correct me if I am wrong?

What matters is if the player who didn't run out of time has enough material to checkmate their opponent.

@BlackRajaWhiteWazir said in #7: > Checkmate can be done from Rook and King, correct me if I am wrong? What matters is if the player who didn't run out of time has enough material to checkmate their opponent.
#17

LiChess ADD on full display here..

It's a draw because chess.com threw it's phone out the window and then it landed into the water, which caused the phone to short, sending the exact parameters to the LiChess server to initiate full-on world domination, but then it p*ssed out in the end. Draw.

P.S. Your mother.

I'm no expert in these things, but that's how you draw a picture of a chessboard with a rook, a king, and 30 seconds on the clock left for black. And white. Mostly.

It's time to press the reply button. Check.

LiChess ADD on full display here.. It's a draw because chess.com threw it's phone out the window and then it landed into the water, which caused the phone to short, sending the exact parameters to the LiChess server to initiate full-on world domination, but then it p*ssed out in the end. Draw. P.S. Your mother. I'm no expert in these things, but that's how you draw a picture of a chessboard with a rook, a king, and 30 seconds on the clock left for black. And white. Mostly. It's time to press the reply button. Check.
#18

draw by timeout vs insufficient material

draw by timeout vs insufficient material
#19

@jomega I can't tank you enough for explaining it in detail. Thanks a lot!

You copy pasted this from somewhere or it is a result of your research you did sometime back? :)

@jomega I can't tank you enough for explaining it in detail. Thanks a lot! You copy pasted this from somewhere or it is a result of your research you did sometime back? :)
#20

@BlackRajaWhiteWazir said in #19:

@jomega I can't tank you enough for explaining it in detail. Thanks a lot!

You copy pasted this from somewhere or it is a result of your research you did sometime back? :)

The FIDE quotes are out of the FIDE rule book. The rest is research. Please see my blog "The unintended consequences of rule changes." for all the references I read to come to my current understanding.

@BlackRajaWhiteWazir said in #19: > @jomega I can't tank you enough for explaining it in detail. Thanks a lot! > > You copy pasted this from somewhere or it is a result of your research you did sometime back? :) The FIDE quotes are out of the FIDE rule book. The rest is research. Please see my blog "The unintended consequences of rule changes." for all the references I read to come to my current understanding.

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