How can a Bot violate the TOS? • page 1/2 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

I just noticed there are bots that have a TOS violation on their page.

What can a bot do that violates the TOS? I guess using a computer is legal...

I just noticed there are bots that have a TOS violation on their page. What can a bot do that violates the TOS? I guess using a computer is legal...

Abigail-III

#2

Are you saying that a person can violate the TOS, but if that same person writes a program to do the same thing, it's no longer a TOS violation?

EmaciatedSpaniard

#3

no, that's not what i'm saying.

I mean you can go to some bots pages and they have TOS violations displayed.

If you hover above their link on the community bots page, I'm sure you can find one pretty quickly.

I am just curious what a TOS violation for a bot would be.

no, that's not what i'm saying. I mean you can go to some bots pages and they have TOS violations displayed. If you hover above their link on the community bots page, I'm sure you can find one pretty quickly. I am just curious what a TOS violation for a bot would be.

jdwhite42

#4

Because, if you're talking about @randommoverbot , if it plays a rated game it must try to win every one of those games

but since it's programmed to make random moves, people can farm it and gain rating illegitimately. causing it to have violated the TOS forces it to play casual only games (if it plays rated, its rating doesn't change)

that's the only thing I can think of

Because, if you're talking about @randommoverbot , if it plays a rated game it must try to win every one of those games but since it's programmed to make random moves, people can farm it and gain rating illegitimately. causing it to have violated the TOS forces it to play casual only games (if it plays rated, its rating doesn't change) that's the only thing I can think of

ChessladderJP

#5

A bot can break the Lichess Terms of Service. Simple, really.

EmaciatedSpaniard

#6

I don't get that though. If the bot is bad, its rating will be low. Noone will be able to farm it. It will eventually settle to a very low rating. Its just following its code. No manipulation there.

pigeonpal

#7

@EmaciatedSpaniard said in #6:

I don't get that though. If the bot is bad, its rating will be low. Noone will be able to farm it. It will eventually settle to a very low rating. Its just following its code. No manipulation there.

“Eventually” can take a while, and there is a rating floor at 600. So people with very low ratings can farm the bot to boost their ratings.

It’s no different than if I created a second account or got a friend to lose all of their games to me so I could increase my rating.

The fact that it’s “just following it’s code” doesn’t matter. The code does something that is against the rules.

@EmaciatedSpaniard said in #6: > I don't get that though. If the bot is bad, its rating will be low. Noone will be able to farm it. It will eventually settle to a very low rating. Its just following its code. No manipulation there. “Eventually” can take a while, and there is a rating floor at 600. So people with very low ratings can farm the bot to boost their ratings. It’s no different than if I created a second account or got a friend to lose all of their games to me so I could increase my rating. The fact that it’s “just following it’s code” doesn’t matter. The code does something that is against the rules.

EmaciatedSpaniard

#8

Then this is a systematic failure imo. Blaming a bot for playing poorly and 'farming out its points' sounds silly. When you join lichess you have a tentative rating with a question mark and once the rating settles down that question mark disappears. And i assume these bots do to the same thing. In what way does that count as a TOS violation?

On the other hand if someone is manipulating the ability of the bot to build up rating at first and then farming those points later, i can see an issue. So a bot should have a stable rating or one that increases gradually, not one that yoyos.

Then this is a systematic failure imo. Blaming a bot for playing poorly and 'farming out its points' sounds silly. When you join lichess you have a tentative rating with a question mark and once the rating settles down that question mark disappears. And i assume these bots do to the same thing. In what way does that count as a TOS violation? On the other hand if someone is manipulating the ability of the bot to build up rating at first and then farming those points later, i can see an issue. So a bot should have a stable rating or one that increases gradually, not one that yoyos.

jdwhite42

#9

@EmaciatedSpaniard

the problem is that the bot isn't trying to win every rated game, which it must to if it is playing rated

this is why sandbagging is illegal

@EmaciatedSpaniard the problem is that the bot isn't trying to win every rated game, which it must to if it is playing rated this is why sandbagging is illegal

EmaciatedSpaniard

#10

How does one judge if a player or bot 'is trying to win'?

Playing badly because (a) you are a beginner, or (b) you are a bot simulating a beginner, is not sandbagging.

Sandbagging is only if you increase your rating (demonstrating your strong playing ability) and then later intentionally lose (playing below your rating). That's why i imagine that one way a bot could be in violation of TOS is if its ability is not consistent. If it ALWAYS plays badly at the same level , i see no issue.

How does one judge if a player or bot 'is trying to win'? Playing badly because (a) you are a beginner, or (b) you are a bot simulating a beginner, is not sandbagging. Sandbagging is only if you increase your rating (demonstrating your strong playing ability) and then later intentionally lose (playing below your rating). That's why i imagine that one way a bot could be in violation of TOS is if its ability is not consistent. If it ALWAYS plays badly at the same level , i see no issue.