Glicko Rating System look unfair. • page 1/2 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

I've been a take a break for at least 5 months from chess, when i return again to play, and there's huge ratio chess rating before i break and after, if losing it's lost nearly -30 my rating, which is average i had is between 5 - 15, even i won against strong player i didn't get rating as much as when i take a break or when i loss my rating.

It's hard to say, but this is kinda unfair especially for people who busy on real life and decide to take a break from chess online for a while then when they come back and losing some games their ratings already down over -100, this is affect in psychological and skills, people start losing their confidence when playing online chess, and decrease the performance and they start playing so terrible because this, i think FIDE Rating System doesn't look like this, i take example on GM Robert Fontaine FIDE ID he take a break for one year due to COVID-19, when he return and just got 6 ratings, so there's something to change with this rating system.

I've been a take a break for at least 5 months from chess, when i return again to play, and there's huge ratio chess rating before i break and after, if losing it's lost nearly -30 my rating, which is average i had is between 5 - 15, even i won against strong player i didn't get rating as much as when i take a break or when i loss my rating. It's hard to say, but this is kinda unfair especially for people who busy on real life and decide to take a break from chess online for a while then when they come back and losing some games their ratings already down over -100, this is affect in psychological and skills, people start losing their confidence when playing online chess, and decrease the performance and they start playing so terrible because this, i think FIDE Rating System doesn't look like this, i take example on GM Robert Fontaine FIDE ID he take a break for one year due to COVID-19, when he return and just got 6 ratings, so there's something to change with this rating system.

Magdiragdag edited

#2

After a break, your rating deviation is higher than before, because the Glicko rating system is not as sure anymore about your playing strength. You'll see this in the change of rating, either winning or losing. In your case, as you can see in your own list of games, rating change was a bit over 20 (either + or -) when playing (blitz) against opposition of around your strength when you restarted playing. That rating change is already decreasing, indicating that your rating deviation is decreasing.

So, this is behaving exactly as the Glicko rating system is supposed to and there is nothing unfair to it.

After a break, your rating deviation is higher than before, because the Glicko rating system is not as sure anymore about your playing strength. You'll see this in the change of rating, either winning or losing. In your case, as you can see in your own list of games, rating change was a bit over 20 (either + or -) when playing (blitz) against opposition of around your strength when you restarted playing. That rating change is already decreasing, indicating that your rating deviation is decreasing. So, this is behaving exactly as the Glicko rating system is supposed to and there is nothing unfair to it.

Rhine_Dottir

edited

#3

@Magdiragdag but there's can be input for future, if it's still using system like that, people cannot measure their skills just because their rating high, that it's why there's many terrible player who had high rating and this is also Glicko Rating System can be exploited easily, farming rating by duping account.

But you need to see that, why i say it's unfair it's effect because this, like i mention before, after take long break and return playing chess see a different rating changes ratio can be create shock and confusion (especially when losing) if keep losing then it will decrease more make people lose their confidence when playing, to make stable again player need to play more games but when people start losing their mood they will playing so terrible and rating will be down far than before.

It's better if follow or create FIDE-Like rating system, like what on FOA did, my rating was very low in there, so i feel i can measure my and other people skills easily and pretty much close to real FIDE Rating and will no confusion even taking long break it's still constant, except when you losing too much with weak player, yes, i'm just 1300 IRL, but due to Glicko i was 1900, weird isn't it?

@Magdiragdag but there's can be input for future, if it's still using system like that, people cannot measure their skills just because their rating high, that it's why there's many terrible player who had high rating and this is also Glicko Rating System can be exploited easily, farming rating by duping account. But you need to see that, why i say it's unfair it's effect because this, like i mention before, after take long break and return playing chess see a different rating changes ratio can be create shock and confusion (especially when losing) if keep losing then it will decrease more make people lose their confidence when playing, to make stable again player need to play more games but when people start losing their mood they will playing so terrible and rating will be down far than before. It's better if follow or create FIDE-Like rating system, like what on FOA did, my rating was very low in there, so i feel i can measure my and other people skills easily and pretty much close to real FIDE Rating and will no confusion even taking long break it's still constant, except when you losing too much with weak player, yes, i'm just 1300 IRL, but due to Glicko i was 1900, weird isn't it?

nadjarostowa

#4

@Rhine_Dottir said in #3:

i'm just 1300 IRL, but due to Glicko i was 1900, weird isn't it?

Maybe the source of your confusion is that you think that ratings should be the same on different platforms? They simply are not. Numbers comparisons are only meaningful in their respective system alone. Even if we would use FIDE Elo here, numbers would be different.

Glicko works pretty well, and it adapts quickly, and rating deviation also gets down quickly again. And you don't play only one single blitz game and then wait for months to enjoy a higher RD and play one more game then?

@Rhine_Dottir said in #3: > i'm just 1300 IRL, but due to Glicko i was 1900, weird isn't it? Maybe the source of your confusion is that you think that ratings should be the same on different platforms? They simply are not. Numbers comparisons are only meaningful in their respective system alone. Even if we would use FIDE Elo here, numbers would be different. Glicko works pretty well, and it adapts quickly, and rating deviation also gets down quickly again. And you don't play only one single blitz game and then wait for months to enjoy a higher RD and play one more game then?

AFinn edited

#5

I think the system works well as the rating reflects your current playing strength. It might be disheartening to lose rating quickly, but surely it's more disheartening to lose game after game because your rating is too high - that's not a judgement on you or your playing strength, simply the reality that having taken a break you're a little rusty.

By the same token, if you had taken a break from Lichess but kept playing chess elsewhere, your Lichess rating could be too low when you returned, and so the system would quickly adapt by giving you more rating points for each win until you reached your new level.

I think the system works well as the rating reflects your current playing strength. It might be disheartening to lose rating quickly, but surely it's more disheartening to lose game after game because your rating is too high - that's not a judgement on you or your playing strength, simply the reality that having taken a break you're a little rusty. By the same token, if you had taken a break from Lichess but kept playing chess elsewhere, your Lichess rating could be too low when you returned, and so the system would quickly adapt by giving you more rating points for each win until you reached your new level.

nadjarostowa

edited

#6

As a funny side story, I took a break from OTB chess for about 10 years. So when I returned, my FIDE K factor was still 40, as I hadn't played so many FIDE rated events back then.

Obviously being not in my top shape, the next tournaments didn't go too well, cashing in heavy losses.

When I got used to playing again and results got better, just in time the K factor dropped to 20, prolonging the suffering quite a bit.

As a funny side story, I took a break from OTB chess for about 10 years. So when I returned, my FIDE K factor was still 40, as I hadn't played so many FIDE rated events back then. Obviously being not in my top shape, the next tournaments didn't go too well, cashing in heavy losses. When I got used to playing again and results got better, just in time the K factor dropped to 20, prolonging the suffering quite a bit.

GriffinDaBeast

#7

@Rhine_Dottir i hate to break it to you but if your losing and your rating is dropping it means your probably playing worse

EmaciatedSpaniard

#8

Rating is not chips in the bank, its just an assessment of how likely you are to win or lose against other players in the same pool, and this can be used to pair you against players of similar strength. When you stop playing here for a while then its possible your playing strength changed. To rapidly get your rating to match your current playing strength the Glicko-2 system changes your rating after each game by a larger amount. This allows your rating to settle in to a new value representative of playing strength so your rating more accurately reflects your win/loss chances. Its perfectly fair. Try not to be so hung up on this number. Work on improving your chess instead.

KingCountyMetro

#9

@Rhine_Dottir said in #3:

@Magdiragdag but there's can be input for future, if it's still using system like that, people cannot measure their skills just because their rating high, that it's why there's many terrible player who had high rating and this is also Glicko Rating System can be exploited easily, farming rating by duping account.

That's why you shouldn't care about ratings. Also rating manipulation is far from Glicko-exclusive, don't blame every Lichess problem on one single feature you don't like.

@Rhine_Dottir said in #3: > @Magdiragdag but there's can be input for future, if it's still using system like that, people cannot measure their skills just because their rating high, that it's why there's many terrible player who had high rating and this is also Glicko Rating System can be exploited easily, farming rating by duping account. That's why you shouldn't care about ratings. Also rating manipulation is far from Glicko-exclusive, don't blame every Lichess problem on one single feature you don't like.

petri999

#10

@Rhine_Dottir said in #3:

@Magdiragdag but there's can be input for future, if it's still using system like that, people cannot measure their skills just because their rating high, that it's why there's many terrible player who had high rating and this is also Glicko Rating System can be exploited easily, farming rating by duping account.

Neither of these can prevented on rating system alone. Except farmin work only if "farm" from consenting opponent. If you just play against weaker player the non avoidable random losses will wipe out the farming gains. I have won in OTB tournament 400 points stronger player. it is rare but happens within about rate predicted the formulas used in rating systems.

@Rhine_Dottir said in #3: > @Magdiragdag but there's can be input for future, if it's still using system like that, people cannot measure their skills just because their rating high, that it's why there's many terrible player who had high rating and this is also Glicko Rating System can be exploited easily, farming rating by duping account. > Neither of these can prevented on rating system alone. Except farmin work only if "farm" from consenting opponent. If you just play against weaker player the non avoidable random losses will wipe out the farming gains. I have won in OTB tournament 400 points stronger player. it is rare but happens within about rate predicted the formulas used in rating systems.