Does chess have a match fixing problem? • page 1/2 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

Right now the NFL is investigating claims football games were fixed allowing teams who threw their games would get better picks in the draft when choosing new players. Chess doesn’t have a “farm team” system allowing such nonsense to happen...at least as far as I can tell. But does chess also have to deal with this problem too? I’m not talking about players using computers to cheat and get better scores...I’m referring to players actually agreeing to throw matches for under the table financial arrangements. Has this happened recently and is this an under the radar problem that needs urgent attention as well?

#2

petri999

#3

There has been such cheats.

https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/08/king-board-soviet-collusion-bobby-fischer/

"Two years earlier, Fischer had described his experience in the Curaçao Candidates’ tournament in a Sports Illustrated manifesto (“The Russians Have Fixed World Chess”), claiming a rudimentary grasp of Russian allowed him to sniff out their cheating: “They would openly analyze my game while I was still playing it. It is strictly against the rules for a player to discuss a game in progress, or even to speak with another player during a game — or, for that matter, with anyone.” Fischer also posed that the format of the tournament was problematic as it allowed the numerous Soviet players to collude in a series of draws and fixes, saving their energy for the finals. His suspicions were validated by several witnesses, including a Soviet grand master."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_chess#False_tournament_reports

But these cheats are not related to betting instead on gains on chess world. Like getting undeserved GM norm. With arranged draws make hard for some else to gain top positition etc.

There has been such cheats. https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/08/king-board-soviet-collusion-bobby-fischer/ "Two years earlier, Fischer had described his experience in the Curaçao Candidates’ tournament in a Sports Illustrated manifesto (“The Russians Have Fixed World Chess”), claiming a rudimentary grasp of Russian allowed him to sniff out their cheating: “They would openly analyze my game while I was still playing it. It is strictly against the rules for a player to discuss a game in progress, or even to speak with another player during a game — or, for that matter, with anyone.” Fischer also posed that the format of the tournament was problematic as it allowed the numerous Soviet players to collude in a series of draws and fixes, saving their energy for the finals. His suspicions were validated by several witnesses, including a Soviet grand master." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_chess#False_tournament_reports But these cheats are not related to betting instead on gains on chess world. Like getting undeserved GM norm. With arranged draws make hard for some else to gain top positition etc.

Prince_of_6ixty4our

#4

@Curious1 said in #1:

Right now the NFL is investigating claims football games were fixed allowing teams who threw their games would get better picks in the draft when choosing new players. Chess doesn’t have a “farm team” system allowing such nonsense to happen...at least as far as I can tell. But does chess also have to deal with this problem too? I’m not talking about players using computers to cheat and get better scores...I’m referring to players actually agreeing to throw matches for under the table financial arrangements. Has this happened recently and is this an under the radar problem that needs urgent attention as well?

This has happened like a gazillion times in chess and many GMs have also earned their title like this.

@Curious1 said in #1: > Right now the NFL is investigating claims football games were fixed allowing teams who threw their games would get better picks in the draft when choosing new players. Chess doesn’t have a “farm team” system allowing such nonsense to happen...at least as far as I can tell. But does chess also have to deal with this problem too? I’m not talking about players using computers to cheat and get better scores...I’m referring to players actually agreeing to throw matches for under the table financial arrangements. Has this happened recently and is this an under the radar problem that needs urgent attention as well? This has happened like a gazillion times in chess and many GMs have also earned their title like this.

h2b2

edited

#5

Are you talking about betting? can you even bet on chess? if you can, how big is the betting market for chess games?

If for example it's a small market and you try to pace a $100,000 bet. 1. no legitimate betting place would take it. 2. they'd report you to the police and your mom.

What other way is there to make a financial gain? i can't think of any.

human do lots of stupid things but I would be surprised if a super GM risked dropping out of the top 20 by deliberately losing unless it was a life changing amount of money. and I can't think of any situation where a life changing amount of money would be near chess

Are you talking about betting? can you even bet on chess? if you can, how big is the betting market for chess games? If for example it's a small market and you try to pace a $100,000 bet. 1. no legitimate betting place would take it. 2. they'd report you to the police and your mom. What other way is there to make a financial gain? i can't think of any. human do lots of stupid things but I would be surprised if a super GM risked dropping out of the top 20 by deliberately losing unless it was a life changing amount of money. and I can't think of any situation where a life changing amount of money would be near chess

Lie8341

#6

@Curious1 said in #1:

Right now the NFL is investigating claims football games were fixed allowing teams who threw their games would get better picks in the draft when choosing new players. Chess doesn’t have a “farm team” system allowing such nonsense to happen...at least as far as I can tell. But does chess also have to deal with this problem too? I’m not talking about players using computers to cheat and get better scores...I’m referring to players actually agreeing to throw matches for under the table financial arrangements. Has this happened recently and is this an under the radar problem that needs urgent attention as well?

What you're referring to is called tanking: When a team's front office fields a poor team in order to accrue losses, and subsequently, a higher pick in the rookie draft. The NFL doesn't have a minor league system either, at least not a formalised one. This is not match fixing.

It's likely that match fixing has occured in Chess though.

@Curious1 said in #1: > Right now the NFL is investigating claims football games were fixed allowing teams who threw their games would get better picks in the draft when choosing new players. Chess doesn’t have a “farm team” system allowing such nonsense to happen...at least as far as I can tell. But does chess also have to deal with this problem too? I’m not talking about players using computers to cheat and get better scores...I’m referring to players actually agreeing to throw matches for under the table financial arrangements. Has this happened recently and is this an under the radar problem that needs urgent attention as well? What you're referring to is called tanking: When a team's front office fields a poor team in order to accrue losses, and subsequently, a higher pick in the rookie draft. The NFL doesn't have a minor league system either, at least not a formalised one. This is not match fixing. It's likely that match fixing has occured in Chess though.

Curious1

#7

i’’m surprised there aren’t any webpages that allow chess players to anonymously point to matches that were fixed. If such a website existed and could be taken seriously then officials could investigate the allegations.

petri999

#8

for starters match fixing in chess is a very small problem as chess betting is not usually a betting event. Also accusations have been made and to a degree investigated. But as long as there is no concrete evidence it hard to prove. Like if football match people losing on purpose are probably receiving money which can be traced. When Bobby F claimed that soviet players were taking pre-arranged draws ... that is lot harder. No money trace and draws happen in chess quite often. On top level early draws are also common.

So no point putting up and maintaining web-page that would not receive any notices. Game fixing is forbidden in rules. If you are in a tournament and you suspect that some players agreed before match on result just contact the chief arbiter and he/she will do what is doable - most likely nothing though.

for starters match fixing in chess is a very small problem as chess betting is not usually a betting event. Also accusations have been made and to a degree investigated. But as long as there is no concrete evidence it hard to prove. Like if football match people losing on purpose are probably receiving money which can be traced. When Bobby F claimed that soviet players were taking pre-arranged draws ... that is lot harder. No money trace and draws happen in chess quite often. On top level early draws are also common. So no point putting up and maintaining web-page that would not receive any notices. Game fixing is forbidden in rules. If you are in a tournament and you suspect that some players agreed before match on result just contact the chief arbiter and he/she will do what is doable - most likely nothing though.

SteveeBear

#9

It has always gone on but I do not see that there is much that organisers can do about it in most cases. In the long run cheats will always fail. Even if they are not official sanctioned against, the public and their supporters will desert them as it become obvious that they are not behaving honestly. Cheats also usually suffer from becoming less good at doing the things that they need to do in order to stay competitive.

If NFL teams are throwing games, those losses would significantly effect the future fan and sponsorship revenue. To throw games for early draft picks makes very little sense. The gap between college football and the NFL is huge. Also an NFL team cannot force their first choice draft pick to play for them, so it could backfire badly as a strategy. The better the player, the more leverage they have.

It has always gone on but I do not see that there is much that organisers can do about it in most cases. In the long run cheats will always fail. Even if they are not official sanctioned against, the public and their supporters will desert them as it become obvious that they are not behaving honestly. Cheats also usually suffer from becoming less good at doing the things that they need to do in order to stay competitive. If NFL teams are throwing games, those losses would significantly effect the future fan and sponsorship revenue. To throw games for early draft picks makes very little sense. The gap between college football and the NFL is huge. Also an NFL team cannot force their first choice draft pick to play for them, so it could backfire badly as a strategy. The better the player, the more leverage they have.

#10