Computer analysis of openings and correspondence play • page 1/1 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

Ok, so I understand that it is against the rules to use an engine during correspondence games on lichess. It is however ok to use opening resources. But what about opening resources that use engine analysis?

For instance this site provides some engine analysis (presumably already done in advance) on different lines.
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=3&n=117&ms=b3.d5
Or this site.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=260740&move=3.5&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.d6.Bb5%2B&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32069.260740

Should I assume that using these sites would be illegal in correspondence chess?

Ok, so I understand that it is against the rules to use an engine during correspondence games on lichess. It is however ok to use opening resources. But what about opening resources that use engine analysis? For instance this site provides some engine analysis (presumably already done in advance) on different lines. https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=3&n=117&ms=b3.d5 Or this site. https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=260740&move=3.5&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.d6.Bb5%2B&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32069.260740 Should I assume that using these sites would be illegal in correspondence chess?

NM MrPushwood

#2

Do what I do now and don't use opening help at all. After all, the only reason tradition allows it in the first place is because it was thought that people would use it anyway (whether it was prohibited or not). So why not go completely honest and refuse to "cheat" in that fashion?

mysterytramp2023 edited

#3

As long as your opponents are in agreement and can do the same, I don't see why it would be a problem. Even use engine analysis, as long as it is unrated game. Perhaps the lichess team has something to say about this?

p.s. lichess is not a serious correspondence site, compared to chess.com, gameknot.com, and chessworld.net

As long as your opponents are in agreement and can do the same, I don't see why it would be a problem. Even use engine analysis, as long as it is unrated game. Perhaps the lichess team has something to say about this? p.s. lichess is not a serious correspondence site, compared to chess.com, gameknot.com, and chessworld.net

Akbar2thegreat

#4

Using engine for opening is itself in joke. Openings are book moves are not bad enough to lose. Don't know why engines with opening explorer even exist!

Overcooker

#5

Using books is allowed, you can even use the opening explorer from the analysis board (from the microscope icon next to the replay moves buttons). Personally I've used the analysis board to create conditional premoves but never looked at the openings explorer, even though it's right there, because that's not how I want to play the game.

Using a book is not much different than using engines if all you do is following instructions. The ICCF even allows the use of engines simply because there's no way to prove with 100% certainty that someone whether someone used an engine. That's the same reason why books are allowed, you can't prove that someone used a book or they just memorized those moves, so they allow it for everyone.

Using books is allowed, you can even use the opening explorer from the analysis board (from the microscope icon next to the replay moves buttons). Personally I've used the analysis board to create conditional premoves but never looked at the openings explorer, even though it's right there, because that's not how I want to play the game. Using a book is not much different than using engines if all you do is following instructions. The ICCF even allows the use of engines simply because there's no way to prove with 100% certainty that someone whether someone used an engine. That's the same reason why books are allowed, you can't prove that someone used a book or they just memorized those moves, so they allow it for everyone.

Toscani

edited

#6

There are verbal test, open book test, hand written test, multiple choice tests, on the job tests and so on. Now which one really tests the person the most ? Theory or practice? Well it goes the same for chess games. The more you are honest, the more you will prove that you are worthy of the win. The value of the win changes with assistance. I consider a game won by the clock or by other means of assistance worthless. That's my values and you can keep yours. It won't change my values.

So when you are on a site and it gives you particular tools to use, go ahead an use them. But don't go getting tools from other sites. The game is no longer fair if you do that.

If it's a game, that both players can use what ever tools they want, then the cloud is the limit. Then you have to know when you will stop using the cloud. Is it going to stop on move 5,10,15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, etc....
Why draw the line at a move number. Just let the engine do it all for you and go do something else.

There are verbal test, open book test, hand written test, multiple choice tests, on the job tests and so on. Now which one really tests the person the most ? Theory or practice? Well it goes the same for chess games. The more you are honest, the more you will prove that you are worthy of the win. The value of the win changes with assistance. I consider a game won by the clock or by other means of assistance worthless. That's my values and you can keep yours. It won't change my values. So when you are on a site and it gives you particular tools to use, go ahead an use them. But don't go getting tools from other sites. The game is no longer fair if you do that. If it's a game, that both players can use what ever tools they want, then the cloud is the limit. Then you have to know when you will stop using the cloud. Is it going to stop on move 5,10,15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, etc.... Why draw the line at a move number. Just let the engine do it all for you and go do something else.

Scandinavian_Axe

#7

Every forum post some random person just has to promote chess.com :)